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Old 09.10.2013, 22:43
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can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

http://www.20min.ch/ro/news/suisse/s...vrier-12387289

L'agenda du prochain scrutin est fixé. Le peuple se prononcera le 9 février sur l'initiative de l'UDC «contre l'immigration de masse», le financement du rail et le remboursement des avortements.


L'initiative de l'UDC vise à réintroduire des plafonds annuels à l'immigration ainsi que des contingents pour les autorisations de séjour en Suisse. Ces limites s'appliqueraient aussi aux frontaliers et aux requérants d'asile. Cette initiative est contraire à l'accord de libre circulation avec l'Union européenne. L'UDC pense qu'il sera possible de renégocier ce traité; une illusion selon les autres partis. Il faudra donc le cas échéant dénoncer l'accord dans les trois ans. Et, clause guillotine oblige, tout l'édifice bilatéral devrait s'écrouler.
Cette initiative n'est que la première d'une série. Le peuple devrait en effet ensuite être appelé à voter sur une autre initiative voulant limiter l'immigration dite ECOPOP ainsi que sur l'extension de la libre circulation à la Croatie.
FAIF
Le 9 février, les Suisses voteront aussi le règlement du financement et de l'aménagement de l'infrastructure ferroviaire, également appelé FAIF. Ce texte a été élaboré à titre de contre-projet direct à l'initiative populaire «pour les transports publics», retirée entre-temps.
Il prévoit un fonds ferroviaire permanent, qui doit prendre le relais de l'actuel Fonds pour les transports publics et sera alimenté par les mêmes sources (redevance poids lourds, TVA, impôt sur les huiles minérales).
La Confédération y versera 2,3 milliards, les cantons 500 millions par an (au lieu de 300 millions actuellement) au prorata des prestations de trafic régional commandées aux entreprises ferroviaires. Les pendulaires verront les déductions fiscales plafonnées à 3000 francs, ce qui rapportera 200 millions supplémentaires.
IVG
Dernier objet à l'ordre du jour, l'initiative «financer l'avortement est une affaire privée» a été lancée par les milieux opposés aux interruptions volontaires de grossesse. Elle vise à ce que l'intervention soit biffée du catalogue des prestations remboursées par l'assurance maladie de base.
«De rares exceptions concernant la mère» seraient tolérées. Il s'agirait notamment des cas de viols ou lorsque la vie de la femme enceinte est en danger. Pour les opposants à l'initiative, ce texte remet en cause la dépénalisation de l'avortement via la solution du délai adoptée par 72,2% des votants en 2002.
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Old 09.10.2013, 23:37
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

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http://www.20min.ch/ro/news/suisse/s...vrier-12387289

L'agenda du prochain scrutin est fixé. Le peuple se prononcera le 9 février sur l'initiative de l'UDC «contre l'immigration de masse», le financement du rail et le remboursement des avortements.


L'initiative de l'UDC vise à réintroduire des plafonds annuels à l'immigration ainsi que des contingents pour les autorisations de séjour en Suisse. Ces limites s'appliqueraient aussi aux frontaliers et aux requérants d'asile. Cette initiative est contraire à l'accord de libre circulation avec l'Union européenne. L'UDC pense qu'il sera possible de renégocier ce traité; une illusion selon les autres partis. Il faudra donc le cas échéant dénoncer l'accord dans les trois ans. Et, clause guillotine oblige, tout l'édifice bilatéral devrait s'écrouler.
Cette initiative n'est que la première d'une série. Le peuple devrait en effet ensuite être appelé à voter sur une autre initiative voulant limiter l'immigration dite ECOPOP ainsi que sur l'extension de la libre circulation à la Croatie.
FAIF
Le 9 février, les Suisses voteront aussi le règlement du financement et de l'aménagement de l'infrastructure ferroviaire, également appelé FAIF. Ce texte a été élaboré à titre de contre-projet direct à l'initiative populaire «pour les transports publics», retirée entre-temps.
Il prévoit un fonds ferroviaire permanent, qui doit prendre le relais de l'actuel Fonds pour les transports publics et sera alimenté par les mêmes sources (redevance poids lourds, TVA, impôt sur les huiles minérales).
La Confédération y versera 2,3 milliards, les cantons 500 millions par an (au lieu de 300 millions actuellement) au prorata des prestations de trafic régional commandées aux entreprises ferroviaires. Les pendulaires verront les déductions fiscales plafonnées à 3000 francs, ce qui rapportera 200 millions supplémentaires.
IVG
Dernier objet à l'ordre du jour, l'initiative «financer l'avortement est une affaire privée» a été lancée par les milieux opposés aux interruptions volontaires de grossesse. Elle vise à ce que l'intervention soit biffée du catalogue des prestations remboursées par l'assurance maladie de base.
«De rares exceptions concernant la mère» seraient tolérées. Il s'agirait notamment des cas de viols ou lorsque la vie de la femme enceinte est en danger. Pour les opposants à l'initiative, ce texte remet en cause la dépénalisation de l'avortement via la solution du délai adoptée par 72,2% des votants en 2002.
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A) the SVP proposal would mean that immigration would become regulated by the Swiss Federal government with a restrictivbe quota system, this in clear violation of Bilateral Treaties. The SVP anyway wants to sabotage those Bilaterals. Major organisations, and all other parties from left to right oppose that proposal

B) a proposal to increase financial support for improving the railways unionwide - This proposal has wide support

C) Abortions are, according to the new proposal, no longer covered by the mandatory Krankenkasse, in order to reduce the costs of healthcare. Disadvantage is that abortions become a privilege of the wealthy
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  #3  
Old 10.10.2013, 09:10
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

a) can this have any effect on foreigners who already live here?

b) Switzerland's great rail network is one of the main advantages of living here. Making it better will improve even more my quality of life!

c) how much does an abortion cost anyway?
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Old 10.10.2013, 10:01
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

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a) can this have any effect on foreigners who already live here?

b) Switzerland's great rail network is one of the main advantages of living here. Making it better will improve even more my quality of life!

c) how much does an abortion cost anyway?
a) i dont think so, it seems to target the amount of new immigrants every year

b) yes but here it's really about the funding: more money invested by cantons and less tax deductions. So basically the tax payers will pay more tax for it. And it's not like a train ticket in Switzerland is particularly cheap... it would be interesting to know what are the projects this money is used for

c) my guess, from seeing hospital bills for "minor" surgeries: very expensive. I am honestly quite shocked about the name of this vote: "paying abortion is a private matter". I think in a modern society with a modern health system as has Switzerland, abortions should be covered. We are not talking here about getting buttocks implants...
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Old 10.10.2013, 10:11
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

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c) how much does an abortion cost anyway?
It depends on the method used and what stage the pregnancy is at.
'Chemical' abortion ie a pill carried out in the early stages of pregnancy is not very expensive, medical or surgical abortion which essentially involves inducing delivery is carried out much later, involves more intervention and is therefore much more expensive. The latter is generally only carried out when there is a problem with either the mother or the foetus ( or both) and would presumably still be covered for most people even with the new proposals in place.
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Old 10.10.2013, 10:55
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

I don't think that non medically necessary abortions should be paid for by taxpayers. If they really are so expensive then that is a good reason to support this referendum as it would indeed help to reduce healthcare costs.
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Old 10.10.2013, 11:00
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

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I don't think that non medically necessary abortions should be paid for by taxpayers. If they really are so expensive then that is a good reason to support this referendum as it would indeed help to reduce healthcare costs.
What taxpayers? Aren't we talking about private insurance companies here?

P.s. Making abortions expensive or illegal doesn't stop people from having abortions. They just have to resort to illegal means at great risk of the procedure being botched. In which case, it will cost "the taxpayers" more to save the woman's life
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Old 10.10.2013, 11:38
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

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What taxpayers? Aren't we talking about private insurance companies here?

P.s. Making abortions expensive or illegal doesn't stop people from having abortions. They just have to resort to illegal means at great risk of the procedure being botched. In which case, it will cost "the taxpayers" more to save the woman's life
well, taxpayers are those who are faced with paying rising premiums. As with all other situations, those who resort to illegal means of any kind must take the consequences.
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Old 10.10.2013, 12:21
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

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well, taxpayers are those who are faced with paying rising premiums. As with all other situations, those who resort to illegal means of any kind must take the consequences.
So, in other words, bleed to death in the street because they couldn't afford an abortion?
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Old 10.10.2013, 12:23
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

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So, in other words, bleed to death in the street because they couldn't afford an abortion?
That's not an argument which would convince me to vote in favour of higher premiums
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Old 10.10.2013, 12:27
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

This is starting to seem very much like the back and forth in comments of US media outlet forums. I thought I'd escape this particular discussion here in Switzerland, but I guess not.
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Old 10.10.2013, 12:29
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

Looks like yes, no, no for me.

Tom
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Old 10.10.2013, 12:59
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

I would vote no, yes, yes! I think the bilaterals are the way to go. So far, they have been very successful.
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Old 10.10.2013, 13:03
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

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That's not an argument which would convince me to vote in favour of higher premiums
Overall that is likely to be cheaper than the benefits the state would have to provide otherwise.
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Old 10.10.2013, 13:17
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

Would it be impossible two have a two system approach for healthcare? Remove abortion from being provided by insurance as it is so that the taxpayers are saved money, but have a federally mandated abortion regulation which would require greater contribution from those needing an abortion (though still subsidised) and only from properly licensed, vetted surgeries? Abortions will become expensive but will still be affordable, and they're done safely, and the taxpayers are saved some money. That way, you divorce abortion from general healthcare, without forcing women into alleyways. Admittedly, ive thought about this for all of 30 seconds.
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Old 10.10.2013, 13:25
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

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Overall that is likely to be cheaper than the benefits the state would have to provide otherwise.
Can't see that being the case. Any figures to support your argument?
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Old 10.10.2013, 13:30
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

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Can't see that being the case. Any figures to support your argument?
Don't know the numbers for CH. But usually it would be one off abortion vs. child benefits till adulthood (+use of all the normal services: education, etc).
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Old 10.10.2013, 13:35
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

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Don't know the numbers for CH. But usually it would be one off abortion vs. child benefits till adulthood (+use of all the normal services: education, etc).
That is assuming that each woman would choose to have a child rather than pay for an abortion herself, imho most unlikely. Much more likely that a woman would choose to pay, taking a loan if necessary.
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Old 10.10.2013, 13:35
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

As the discussion here seems to be based on this 20min article (the horror) only:

The proposed changes per (counter-)initiative in the constitution:
  1. Bundesbeschluss über die "Volksinitiative gegen Masseneinwanderung" (Initiative against mass-immigration)
  2. Bundesbeschluss über die Volksinitiative "Abtreibungsfinanzierung ist Privatsache" (For private financing of abortions initiative)
  3. Bundesbeschluss über die Finanzierung und den Ausbau der Eisenbahninfrastruktur (direkter Gegenentwurf zur Volksinitiative 'Für den öffentlichen Verkehr')" (Initiative for public transport counter proposal)

All in German. Couldn't find the other languages, sorry.
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Old 10.10.2013, 13:40
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Re: can someone please explain to me what this is exactly

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That is assuming that each woman would choose to have a child rather than pay for an abortion herself, imho most unlikely. Much more likely that a woman would choose to pay, taking a loan if necessary.
Those having access to money - which excludes the poorest - yes. But there would be those having difficulties. And having more children from the poorest families is not exactly what is needed...
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