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  #201  
Old 25.02.2014, 12:40
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Voters here did not realise they were voting about "survival"!
What was on most voters mind (those who voted yes anyhow) was less to do with having an ever-expanding and booming economy and foreign population, and more to do with regaining independent control of their immigration policy - and there is nothing wrong with that and nothing illigal about that! Sure some may not like it, some because they are looking out only for themselves, but this is the Swiss way of saying "we are looking after ourselves too"!
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  #202  
Old 25.02.2014, 12:42
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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It IS about doing well, but with uncountable problems caused by voters who voted out of emotions
Your bagging out of those who voted yes to this initiative is kinda petty, don't you think!? Half of those who voted were for the initiative ... do you really think that they were all just voting out of emotions!? - Come on!
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  #203  
Old 25.02.2014, 22:12
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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In a sense what CH has done is no different to Ireland's Protocol, or the recent UK Finance opt-outs last year, which were options for members. Not joining Schengen or the Euro are other examples for members (like the UK for both, UK, Sweden Denmark, Hungary for the Euro, Ireland for Schengen only etc.).
Well the one obvious difference is that the Irish people have the power through referenda to call a halt to to the hold thing, so they can not ignored, either by their own government or the EU.

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So where is the controversy? Not accepting Croatia (HR) for FMOP isn't specific to HR as far as CH is concerned. In fact CH is being honest and consistent.
There is a fundamental difference - what we are proposing to do is treat some of it's citizens differently to others and that is not going to fly with the EU. Could you imagine the what would happen if the EU turned around and said OK, all the cantons that voted NO can still have the deal where as citizens from the other cantons now need permits or whatever....

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In the meantime we're not keen on adding any more but are happy to come to the table.
Yes, but the EU already responded to that even before the election - "No thanks, not interested". The gave us three choices to ponder, although it seems to have been lost on most people: walk away, keep what we got, accept the full EU legal framework....


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"Oh and for democratic credibility, allegedly an EU fundamental freedom, we've asked all our 26 cantons. Don't lecture to us until you've had a referendum in the 26 EU countries that don't require referenda on EU law/Treaty changes by law. (The two being Ireland since 1986 (Crotty v. An Taoiseach) and the UK since European Union Act 2011).
It is up to each EU country to decide how to ratify treaty changes, the EU has no say in how that process works. Some countries hold referenda, some have various qualified voting procedures in their national parliament and the in the UK the government of the day just does as it likes! If a country wishes to change it's process and start holding referenda or whatever, as I think France intends to, then again that is up to the citizens of the country concerned, the EU has no say in it.
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  #204  
Old 25.02.2014, 23:10
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Your bagging out of those who voted yes to this initiative is kinda petty, don't you think!? Half of those who voted were for the initiative ... do you really think that they were all just voting out of emotions!? - Come on!
I speak of some 5% of the total, who made the majority

The campaign of the SVP was done through many months and DID appeal to emotions right from the start.
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  #205  
Old 26.02.2014, 09:19
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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It IS about doing well, but with uncountable problems caused by voters who voted out of emotions
You're talking about those pesky NO voters, aren't you?

Tom
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  #206  
Old 26.02.2014, 09:25
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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did people fully understand what they were voting for?
I'll bet that the YES voters understood at least as well as the NO voters.

Tom
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  #207  
Old 26.02.2014, 09:51
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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...
The campaign of the SVP was done through many months and DID appeal to emotions right from the start.
SVP wins initiatives not because of, but despite those campaigns.

Who is an SVP supporter by ideologics, doesn't need campaigns.

For whom is an ideological SVP hater, those ads are another point in voting against,

and who is not an SVP supporter, but out of logics - against all his emotions - understands that SVP has a point in this thing (and Federal Council is wrong on many issues), could be pissed off by those silly ads.
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  #208  
Old 26.02.2014, 11:22
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The campaign of the SVP was done through many months and DID appeal to emotions right from the start.
Sure - and there is nothing inherently wrong with emotions .... so long as they are not the only motivation all the time. The initiative had many facts too, many of which were even acknowledged by those against the initiative - so it was not all emotions - but yes, emotions do have something to do with the way that human beings think and make choices. - And this goes for the opposition to the initiative too - they played on people's emotions big time - all that stuff about "Human Rights", "Racism", old and sick people being left without care, "Economic meltdown" etc ....

So lets be fair and state that across the board emotions were a part of the debate!

To all:
Sorry to have to plug this again ... but I really need help getting this website translated ... even if you can do a page here or there it would be much appreciated. (I am also open to suggestions and feedback on the content!)
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  #209  
Old 26.02.2014, 11:31
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Could you imagine the what would happen if the EU turned around and said OK, all the cantons that voted NO can still have the deal where as citizens from the other cantons now need permits or whatever....
Are you trying to liken the Cantons of Switzerland to European nations!? How odd ...

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Yes, but the EU already responded to that even before the election - "No thanks, not interested". The gave us three choices to ponder, although it seems to have been lost on most people: walk away, keep what we got, accept the full EU legal framework....
And we are in no way limited to those "three choices" since Article 18 gives either party to the agreement the right to call for revision and renegotiation! So the EU can say "not interested" all it likes, however it doesn't really matter since the agreement makes provision for what the EU states it's "not interested" in!
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  #210  
Old 26.02.2014, 11:45
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Are you trying to liken the Cantons of Switzerland to European nations!? How odd ...



And we are in no way limited to those "three choices" since Article 18 gives either party to the agreement the right to call for revision and renegotiation! So the EU can say "not interested" all it likes, however it doesn't really matter since the agreement makes provision for what the EU states it's "not interested" in!
Art 18 states you can renegotiate. It does not state you get what you want automatically.

Actually:

http://www.rts.ch/audio/la-1ere/prog...5-02-2014.html

Germany and France included, they do not seem interested to negotiate anything at all.

So... good luck?
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  #211  
Old 26.02.2014, 11:51
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

EAB: if I were you I'd get the English up to scratch before I started thinking about getting it translated.

Your web page badly needs a thorough proofreading.
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  #212  
Old 26.02.2014, 11:59
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Art 18 states you can renegotiate. It does not state you get what you want automatically.

Actually:

http://www.rts.ch/audio/la-1ere/prog...5-02-2014.html

Germany and France included, they do not seem interested to negotiate anything at all.

So... good luck?
The initiative calls for the renegotiation - and that that renegotiation from the Swiss side is based on the newly added element to the Swiss Constitution! It does not demand that the EU do what it wants - and neither do I or any other Swiss voter - all we demand is the right given to us by Article 18 to call for revision and renegotiation!

Chancellor Merkel has made it quite clear that she is not agreeing to any brash measures taken against the Swiss decision. She is calling for calm and level-heads. Negotiation are already taking place ...
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Old 26.02.2014, 12:00
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EAB: if I were you I'd get the English up to scratch before I started thinking about getting it translated.

Your web page badly needs a thorough proofreading.
Please let me know what you see needs fixing - thanks!
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  #214  
Old 26.02.2014, 12:02
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Please let me know what you see needs fixing - thanks!
Too many mistakes to list here. Like I said: the whole thing needs a thorough proofreading.
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  #215  
Old 26.02.2014, 12:03
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Too many mistakes to list here. Like I said: the whole thing needs a thorough proofreading.
Can you PM me just a few so I can see what you are talking about more or less?
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  #216  
Old 26.02.2014, 12:04
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Can you PM me just a few so I can see what you are talking about more or less?
No.
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  #217  
Old 26.02.2014, 12:05
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No.
Well, it was worth a shot ... if your feeling a little charitable sometime don't hesitate to drop a line
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  #218  
Old 26.02.2014, 12:08
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Well, it was worth a shot ... if your feeling a little charitable sometime don't hesitate to drop a line
I've already advised you to do a thorough proofreading of your site. What more do you want?

I'm a foreigner, remember. I'm only here for the money.
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  #219  
Old 26.02.2014, 12:51
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I'll bet that the YES voters understood at least as well as the NO voters.

Tom
Then explain why people are voting becuse there are too many kebab shops in Luzern.

Dave.
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  #220  
Old 26.02.2014, 16:30
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

In topic:

http://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/564724...tree-2014.html

Erasmus+: gone.
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