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Old 27.02.2014, 21:45
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Increase in naturalization applications after the 9 February vote

Cantonal administrations in Romandie have noted an increase in applications for naturalization and information requests after the 9 February vote. Some foreigners are worried about their future.

In Vaud, they've gone from an average of 15.8 applications per day to 23.3. Especially from German and French citizens.

An official said that the revision of the Law on Nationality may also have contributed to this phenomenon.

http://www.lematin.ch/suisse/demande...story/10113012

YES, there will be far far less foreigners here at the end of this year than now as lots of foreigners will have become CH citizens by then

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  #362  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:45
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Switzerland has NOT proclaimed to break ANY agreements. And the initiative does NOT demand breaking any agreements but to re-negotiate some parts of one of the agreements. NO breaking of agreements or treaties.
this is not entirely accurate, Wolli, the initiative demands that all treaties conform to the new regime, which the existing treaties (at least FMOP) clearly do not. if you are sitting in the EU, how would you construe Swiss legislation that explicitly provides that it overrides existing treaties - as an offer to re-negotiate or a repudiation?



the irony to me with this whole situation is that many folks sitting in the German-speaking part of Switzerland appear shocked and surprised that the German press is looking only at the plain language of the initiative and ignoring the "practicalities" or "the Swiss political process". even as an Ami I could have told you that reading between the lines when it comes to legislative matters is not exactly a renowned German trait, it's part of what makes their damned civil code so frustrating to us western cowboys.
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  #363  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:50
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Some grants will only have started in 2012 and the way that the EC (REA/ERC etc) funds individual research projects means that they hold back significant payments (c. 40% of the grant) throughout the life (and after the end) of the grant.

The figure mentioned above will be a minimum and WILL increase by a significant amount (but no one can say by how much until 2016).
Thanks but it is a standard SVP tactic to quote headline numbers without any detailed analysis or understanding of what the numbers really mean and represent.
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  #364  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:52
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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YES, there will be far far less foreigners here at the end of this year than now
Good example of the application of the law of unintended side effects.
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  #365  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:56
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And that is clearly breaking the agreement; "The Commission has been crystal-clear that we expect this extension as planned".

About "to sign as soon as possible"; that is a statement without any defined meaning.
"As soon as possible" could mean next next week, next year, next century, next millenium, some time, never .......

No commercial company would sign a contract with "As soon as possible" as a timescale.
The position of the CH federal government is clear "YES, the agreements with Croatia are approved and will be signed.

No, it is cleary said "within three months"

Lots of commercial agreements are signed with remarks like
- subject to approval by the board
- subject to approval of the authorities (CAAs etc)
- subject to approval of the anti-trust authority
- subject to approval of this or that court
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  #366  
Old 27.02.2014, 22:01
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The position of the CH federal government is clear "YES, the agreements with Croatia are approved and will be signed.

No, it is cleary said "within three months"

Lots of commercial agreements are signed with remarks like
- subject to approval by the board
- subject to approval of the authorities (CAAs etc)
- subject to approval of the anti-trust authority
- subject to approval of this or that court
About "No, it is clearly said "within three months" " - you really believe the EU/Swiss negotiation will be completed in 3 months?
So far as I understand the 3 months refer to the time required for the Swiss govt. to decide if they will sign the Croatia agreement as planned.

I do not see the relationship between "as soon as possible" and "subject to approval"; one is a timescale and the other is a clearly defined pre-condition.
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  #367  
Old 27.02.2014, 22:05
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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About "No, it is clearly said "within three months" " - you really believe the EU/Swiss negotiation will be completed in 3 months?
So far as I understand the 3 months refer to the time required for the Swiss govt. to decide if they will sign the Croatia agreement as planned.

I do not see the relationship between "as soon as possible" and "subject to approval"; one is a timescale and the other is a clearly defined pre-condition.
The EU couldn't pick their nose in three months, let alone renegotiate something as complicated as this.
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Old 27.02.2014, 22:18
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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About "I am glad I looked into this more in-depth ... certainly nothing worth panicking about. "

Well of course you will not panic; it is not your job or your career that depends on the continued flow of EU funding?
For the vast majority of people, it doesn't.

Sorry, but that's reality.

Tom
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  #369  
Old 27.02.2014, 22:25
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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this is not entirely accurate, Wolli, the initiative demands that all treaties conform to the new regime, which the existing treaties (at least FMOP) clearly do not. if you are sitting in the EU, how would you construe Swiss legislation that explicitly provides that it overrides existing treaties - as an offer to re-negotiate or a repudiation?



the irony to me with this whole situation is that many folks sitting in the German-speaking part of Switzerland appear shocked and surprised that the German press is looking only at the plain language of the initiative and ignoring the "practicalities" or "the Swiss political process". even as an Ami I could have told you that reading between the lines when it comes to legislative matters is not exactly a renowned German trait, it's part of what makes their damned civil code so frustrating to us western cowboys.
> not ALL treaties but only those which are affected by the new law
> it is NOT a "new regime" but simply a revision
> Swiss legislation already in the past DID override existing treaties
> the German media is not against Switzerland but Germany generally sides with Zürich and Basel and also fails a bit to understand the bottom-result
>> Germany accepts that results of a democratic vote are to be accepted even if happened with a 50,3% majority only but of course are free to criticize the result harshly.
>>>> many Germans when making phone calls to Zürich are surprised and almost shocked when the counterpart says "oh sure, perfectly right, this is why WE voted NO"
--
You have to realize that Swiss and Austrians commented on WestGerman politics since 1949 as if it was their own country, WestGermans and Austrians did the same about Swiss politics and WestGermans and Swiss about Austrian politics
--
as far as I can see it, not many people in the German speaking part of Switzerland are shocked about the Germans. But German comments are heard (TV) and read (media) one-to-one and discussed intensively. No translation required
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  #370  
Old 27.02.2014, 22:26
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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For the vast majority of people, it doesn't.

Sorry, but that's reality.

Tom
Less than 5% of the Swiss live in Ticino; do you think this is a good reason for the vast majority of Swiss people to ignore Ticino?
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Old 27.02.2014, 22:29
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Less than 5% of the Swiss live in Ticino; do you think this is a good reason for the vast majority of Swiss people to ignore Ticino?
However, we control the border traffic.

Personally, I favor secession.

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 28.02.2014 at 09:10. Reason: spelling
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  #372  
Old 27.02.2014, 22:30
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About "No, it is clearly said "within three months" " - you really believe the EU/Swiss negotiation will be completed in 3 months?
So far as I understand the 3 months refer to the time required for the Swiss govt. to decide if they will sign the Croatia agreement as planned.

I do not see the relationship between "as soon as possible" and "subject to approval"; one is a timescale and the other is a clearly defined pre-condition.
the 3 months condition is part of the initiative. But it is not yet even clear whether the new law is alright with the constitution or violates the constitution

no, that the Croatia agreement will be signed is already clear

how things are to be done in 3 months however indeed is difficult to see, but Mr Burkhalter says that it can be done and will be done

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However, we control the border traffic.

Personally, I favor succession.

Tom
what do you mean by "succession" ?

************************************************** **********

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  #373  
Old 27.02.2014, 22:35
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...we control the border traffic.
I know some people in Zurich who might question your choice of verb.

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Old 27.02.2014, 22:48
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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the 3 months condition is part of the initiative. But it is not yet even clear whether the new law is alright with the constitution or violates the constitution

no, that the Croatia agreement will be signed is already clear

how things are to be done in 3 months however indeed is difficult to see, but Mr Burkhalter says that it can be done and will be done

************************************************** *******



what do you mean by "succession" ?

************************************************** **********
About "what do you mean by "succession" ?"
My guess would be secession; which I would support
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  #375  
Old 27.02.2014, 22:53
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Some grants will only have started in 2012 and the way that the EC (REA/ERC etc) funds individual research projects means that they hold back significant payments (c. 40% of the grant) throughout the life (and after the end) of the grant.

The figure mentioned above will be a minimum and WILL increase by a significant amount (but no one can say by how much until 2016).
I am well aware of this - however you are leaving something else out...

"This is an outstanding outcome, showing that Swiss researchers are able to secure 1.52 times more FP7 funding than Switzerland would have been able to expect in relation to its financial contribution to FP7. This does not mean, however, that for every 1 CHF invested in FP7, CHF 1.52 automatically re-enters Switzerland. Rather, this result shows that Swiss researchers can perform outstandingly well when it comes to competing with researchers in other European countries for grant funding.

It is nevertheless worth mentioning that Switzerland's financial contribution to FP7 is determined on the basis of the ratio of Swiss GDP to the sum total of GDPs of all EU member states combined. Since Swiss GDP has risen with regards to the GDP of the EU as a whole, Switzerland's contribution to FP7 has increased substantially over the past few years. The financial return coefficient has decreased somewhat as a result.

As mentioned earlier, the financial return coefficient for FP7 of 1.52 is only a snapshot of Swiss competitiveness when it comes to securing EU research funding and does not necessarily mean that by the end of FP7 Switzerland will have achieved a positive net financial return."

Same source as previously quoted.
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Old 27.02.2014, 22:54
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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the 3 months condition is part of the initiative. But it is not yet even clear whether the new law is alright with the constitution or violates the constitution

no, that the Croatia agreement will be signed is already clear

how things are to be done in 3 months however indeed is difficult to see, but Mr Burkhalter says that it can be done and will be done

************************************************** *******



what do you mean by "succession" ?

************************************************** **********
about "the 3 months condition is part of the initiative. " No, the initiative says 3 years?
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  #377  
Old 27.02.2014, 22:58
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I know some people in Zurich who might question your choice of verb.

While to border policemen on the outer borders of Ticino are employees of the Ticino Cantonal Police, they are under the supreme command of Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf who is citizen of Graubünden and Zürich so that it is not just about a verb

The VAT matter however is under the supreme command of Simonetta Sommaruga who is citizen of Bern and Ticino

Most soldiers in evidence in Ticino are however from Zürich and Basel
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Old 27.02.2014, 23:02
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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FP7
-............... This means that Switzerland's financial contributions to FP7 and the amount of funding secured thus far by Swiss researchers as of 15 June 2012 is about the same."
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................"This is an outstanding outcome, showing that Swiss researchers are able to secure 1.52 times more FP7 funding than Switzerland would have been able to expect in relation to its financial contribution to FP7. ...............
Alternative answers?
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Old 27.02.2014, 23:03
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Alternative answers?
Read the documents ... I listed the source ..
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Old 27.02.2014, 23:05
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about "the 3 months condition is part of the initiative. " No, the initiative says 3 years?
3 months until the start of the negotiations but 3 years until the final conclusions. Where exactly the Croatia matter comes in is a bit unclear to me. But Mrs Sommaruga told here Croation counterpart that matters will be settled within 3 months. This of course may turn out to be wrong

THIS is why I above said that the universities cannot wait for politics but have to act now
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