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  #501  
Old 04.03.2014, 09:20
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Yes, but....what about your country? How easy would be for some foreigner to work there? What about free movement ? i am asking because usually, those who are complaining the most are coming from countries which doesn't even dream to treat other nationals as "equals".
Being from so called "third world country", if I have to compete job with an European or American they will win if we have same qualifications and skills. Of course chances that they apply for lower paid job is very unlikely. Most (>50%) of highly paid job (equivalent to Europe) are hold by foreigners. Its also because these jobs are offered by international companies.

We are not a colonised country but our minds are colonised. People in my country thinks that people from developed country are smarter and intelligent and bring ideas…..

We do not have problems with free movement or jobs finding by people from other countries because its very rare they come for local job or live there permanently. when foreigners come they come as tourists and they get 3 months visa which they can keep on renewing indefinitely without even showing source of income.
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  #502  
Old 04.03.2014, 10:03
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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OK for me but I thought you supported the idea of quotas?

You wrote earlier today "The initiative is not against ANY and ALL foreigners/immigrants - it's simply a law which applies the logically sound notion that there is such a thing as too many"

Now you write "by all means get what you "need" from wherever you can".

So now you do not support introducing quotas?
How does a factor of "where" automatically conflict with the factor of "how many"!?

Once again, there is no issue with the need for foreign labor in Switzerland - as long as it is independently manageable by Switzerland.

So to combine the two quotations you mentioned ....

"by all means get what you "need" from wherever you can".

within the lawful boundaries set out by ... (the initiative)

"The initiative is not against ANY and ALL foreigners/immigrants - it's simply a law which applies the logically sound notion that there is such a thing as too many"
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  #503  
Old 04.03.2014, 14:37
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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How does a factor of "where" automatically conflict with the factor of "how many"!?

Once again, there is no issue with the need for foreign labor in Switzerland - as long as it is independently manageable by Switzerland.

So to combine the two quotations you mentioned ....

"by all means get what you "need" from wherever you can".

within the lawful boundaries set out by ... (the initiative)

"The initiative is not against ANY and ALL foreigners/immigrants - it's simply a law which applies the logically sound notion that there is such a thing as too many"
Your statement should read "by all means get what you "are allowed" from wherever you can".
The idea of "get what you need" is misleading; even senior SVP people like Spuhler recognise it will be difficult to bring in more foreigners due to quotas and are threatening to move their businesses abroad.

About consequences
  • There was a celebration today about completion of the next phase of the 2 Billion Kraftwerk "Nant de Drance", also known as Batterie Europas. Currently there are no plans to build the cable network needed to connect it to the electricity infrastructure; this needs the talks with EU about electricity to resume and successfully complete. Otherwise we will have a 2 billion white elephant
  • According to the Schilling report this week the number of foreign top managers sank last year from 45% to 42%. This is not a consequence as such but an indicator of how the situation could change and relatively quickly; people are very mobile these days and if they get the feeling (rightly or wrongly) that they are not needed here then they will walk.
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  #504  
Old 04.03.2014, 14:49
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Your statement should read "by all means get what you "are allowed" from wherever you can".
The idea of "get what you need" is misleading;
Nope it isn't, at least not within the proper (and obvious) context of staying within the law.
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  #505  
Old 04.03.2014, 15:35
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Can someone please tell me are foreigners still able to come to Switzerland and how much time is left until this is all implemented and in place? I am currently looking for a job and want to move to Switzerland but not sure what to expect after all this vote.

thanks a lot
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  #506  
Old 04.03.2014, 15:36
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Yes.

Three years.
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  #507  
Old 04.03.2014, 15:45
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Yes.

Three years.

Thanks a lot Dougal's Breakfast
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  #508  
Old 04.03.2014, 15:51
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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"The initiative is not against ANY and ALL foreigners/immigrants - it's simply a law which applies the logically sound notion that there is such a thing as too many"
That is already taken care of. Employers will not hire more people than they need, and most people moving here do so for work.

I wonder how this will affect rich people moving here who do not have to work? Oh, probably not at all.
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Old 04.03.2014, 21:41
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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What EU country would accept this kind of immigration? Germany with 800'000 immigrants per year? Don't think so.
Sweden had an immigration of 115 845 persons last year, which, compared to the population, is also higher than Switzerland.
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  #510  
Old 04.03.2014, 22:05
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Sweden had an immigration of 115 845 persons last year, which, compared to the population, is also higher than Switzerland.
...but Sweden is 10 times bigger than Switzerland, more room you know :roll eyes:
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  #511  
Old 04.03.2014, 22:14
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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So!? The initiative is not against ANY and ALL foreigners/immigrants - it's simply a law which applies the logically sound notion that there is such a thing as too many. Nowhere have a I seen the SVP or Blocher stating that Switzerland has no need of foreign labour, now have I seen the SVP of Blocher state that the expulsion of all foreigners is what they are striving for.

So I see no "odd situation" in those who are for the initiative hiring foreign employees.
When the financial crisis started (shortly after the FMOP in CH), Switzerland could very effectively and fast get (thanks to FMOP AND the financial crisis ) qualified people, that together with a very attractive place for companies (due to the low taxes) saved Switzerland from the financial crisis.

This is now history, even though companies will still be able to get people the procedure is really tedious since it has to go through all that bureaucracy...

In 3 years when the market has financially stabilised Switzerland will not be as attractive as today and the immigration will drop, i.e. self regulate...too bad people couldn't wait...:roll eyes:
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Old 04.03.2014, 22:37
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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...but Sweden is 10 times bigger than Switzerland, more room you know :roll eyes:
Come on, immigrants won't nicely spread themselves evenly... Jokkmokk isn't Malmö.
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  #513  
Old 04.03.2014, 22:55
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Your statement should read "by all means get what you "are allowed" from wherever you can".
The idea of "get what you need" is misleading; even senior SVP people like Spuhler recognise it will be difficult to bring in more foreigners due to quotas and are threatening to move their businesses abroad.
Threaten and complain is what people like Spuhler do. Attractive tax deals is what keeps them here nevertheless. If he moves facilities out of Switzerland it will more likely be due to labour costs than because he can't hire.

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About consequences[LIST][*]There was a celebration today about completion of the next phase of the 2 Billion Kraftwerk "Nant de Drance", also known as Batterie Europas. Currently there are no plans to build the cable network needed to connect it to the electricity infrastructure; this needs the talks with EU about electricity to resume and successfully complete. Otherwise we will have a 2 billion white elephant
Many of the hydro storage plants are in trouble right now, not because of anything Switzerland is doing but because solar subsidies in places like Germany have sent electricity bulk prices through the floor. These expensive hydro storage plants were built under completely erroneous assumptions as to which way the electricity price was heading are going to struggle to recover costs. Sometimes it is better to admit that than to throw good money after bad hoping for a miracle.
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  #514  
Old 05.03.2014, 09:40
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Come on, immigrants won't nicely spread themselves evenly... Jokkmokk isn't Malmö.
unfortunately not, somehow Swedish politicians seems to think that putting all immigrants in one location is a good idea...:roll eyes:

also bare in mind, the majority of immigrants coming to Switzerland is not similar as those coming to Sweden ...in Switzerland they actually utilise immigrants whereas in Sweden they are not...such a pity
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  #515  
Old 05.03.2014, 15:08
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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One more thing. You know why the swiss people accepted free movement. They were told 8'000 would come pear year and if not this could be regulated. Not the swiss people were unreliable the swiss politicians were.
Sorry, but that's the nature of democracy; if the politicians you vote for have lied or are incompetent, then ultimately you - the voter - are responsible because you voted them in. I've heard Italians complain non-stop about the political class that they keep on voting into office and Irish blaming politicians for their decisions to buy overpriced property now worth half the price they paid. If the Swiss got bad advice from their politicians, it's because they voted in the people who gave them that bad advice and if there are consequences to terminating agreements with the EU, then that too is because they chose to.

In democracy, the buck stops collectively with the enfranchised citizen. If you plead ignorance after the fact, it is because you failed in your duty as a citizen to watch over the watchmen of our society.

While I would be fairly confident that eventually some compromise will be reached whereby it'll be business as usual and the initiative will be applied in only a cosmetic manner, I'm pretty certain that we are going to see Switzerland suffer consequences, but only because of the UK.

With the UK's proposed referendum only a few years away, the last thing anyone in Brussels wants to see is Switzerland proving the UKIP's claim that the UK can have their cake and eat it with the EU, so to a great extent the EU has to make an example of Switzerland, because ultimately the UK is far more important in the grand scheme of things.
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  #516  
Old 05.03.2014, 16:30
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Come on, immigrants won't nicely spread themselves evenly... Jokkmokk isn't Malmö.
Indeed. Jokkmokk only fits 4 people.
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  #517  
Old 05.03.2014, 16:40
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Sweden had an immigration of 115 845 persons last year, which, compared to the population, is also higher than Switzerland.
yes, and the immigration situation in places like Sweden is one of the things driving some of the concern in countries across Europe, including Switzerland.
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  #518  
Old 06.03.2014, 01:43
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Seems the Erasmus problem is solved; Blocher has said he will help the students.

From Tagesanzeiger here

"schlug Blocher vor: «Ich werde mir anschauen, aus welchem Grund ihr nicht im Ausland studieren könnt, und euch helfen.»"

Just as well because the Swiss Parliament failed to provide enough money for Erasmus, same article.
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Old 06.03.2014, 10:49
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Seems the Erasmus problem is solved; Blocher has said he will help the students.

From Tagesanzeiger here

"schlug Blocher vor: «Ich werde mir anschauen, aus welchem Grund ihr nicht im Ausland studieren könnt, und euch helfen.»"

Just as well because the Swiss Parliament failed to provide enough money for Erasmus, same article.
That may yet prove to be his biggest own-goal so far ...

I can't see him weasling his way out of that without losing face.
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  #520  
Old 06.03.2014, 12:30
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

According to the http://www.bernerzeitung.ch/schweiz/...story/12646797
the Bundesrat thought about stopping the negotations about ERASMUS in January already. Reason: the EU demanded instead of originally negociated 185 Mio contributions more than twice as much.
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