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  #541  
Old 31.03.2014, 06:18
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The SVP is widely admired by various right-wing groups across Europe. The SVP itself apparently isn't too comfortable with these associations, that only cherry pick certain aspects of the SVP's politics while ignoring others. I guess this comes from the one-sided way foreign media frequently report on the SVP.
Amogles, if the SVP is upset that outsiders think of their party is only against immigration, that may be because it seems to be the only issue that the party campaigns against nationally in Switzerland. I've seen Italian posters where the SVP's rivals are seen as sleeping cats letting in the bad mice from Italy. I've seen German posters which have shown shoes representing immigrants walking in from Germany (and presumedly France). The only French poster I've seen is an insulting one attacking another political party, but I'm sure people in Romandie could point out other examples.

It's possible that they are running other ads on other issues in Switzerland that are not mentioned in this forum, but to me it seems that the reason the SVP is perceived mainly as anti-immigration is because of what they have done and not cherry-picking by their opponents.
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  #542  
Old 31.03.2014, 10:00
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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It's possible that they are running other ads on other issues in Switzerland that are not mentioned in this forum
They do, as do other parties.

But no-one remembers any of them, regardless of the party.

I sure don't.

Tom
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  #543  
Old 31.03.2014, 10:07
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

The SVP is a hit or miss party with their bold statements and fearless propoganda. Many people secretly admire the party for voicing thoughts that are borderline nationalist.

Tax hikes and school budget cuts are becoming more and more of an issue. I'll be interested to know how the SVP would like to solve these problems, especially since much of it was caused through their own decisions.

Sometimes I'd like to shake the other parties from their deep sleep and apathatic stance. Raise your voices, CVP, SP, EVP, FDP and whatever other party is out there.
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  #544  
Old 02.04.2014, 10:33
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Most of the naturalized Swiss citizens who contribute on this forum are voting with SVP....and they are not Eastern Europeans. It's a "foreigner complex" (but the reverse kind of Gaijin complex). Probably didn't even have to "fight" for becoming "a part" of CH...
Over the years I've found that much of the time it really just comes down to that people are basically are selfish hypocrites.

I remember a thread on an Irish forum, a few years ago, and one very vocal chap complaining about immigration in Ireland and how they were taking all the jobs - usual sort of Alf Garnet rant. Doing a quick search on his posting history, I found that at the same time he was posting on a thread about emigrating to Australia, where he stated he was in the process of doing so as he'd heard there were plenty of jobs going out there...

You'll tend to find quite often that people tend to hold convenient positions in debates, that in turn tend to coincide with positions that support their self interests and so are not afraid to be hypocritical when those positions are no longer convenient. Most tend to hide this hypocrisy in carefully constructed justifications, and are less blatant than the above example, but ultimately it all adds up to the same thing.

And so once Swiss, like any other citizen, former foreigners find it convenient to close the door behind them, to protect their self interests too.

Last edited by Aeneas; 02.04.2014 at 10:45. Reason: fixed typo
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  #545  
Old 02.04.2014, 11:00
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Over the years I've found that much of the time it really just comes down to that people are basically are selfish hypocrites.

I remember a thread on an Irish forum, a few years ago, and one very vocal chap complaining about immigration in Ireland and how they were taking all the jobs - usual sort of Alf Garnet rant. Doing a quick search on his posting history, I found that at the same time he was posting on a thread about emigrating to Australia, where he stated he was in the process of doing so as he'd heard there were plenty of jobs going out there...

You'll tend to find quite often that people tend to hold convenient positions in debates, that in turn tend to coincide with positions that support their self interests and so are not afraid to be hypocritical when those positions are no longer convenient. Most tend to hide this hypocrisy in carefully constructed justifications, and are less blatant than the above example, but ultimately it all adds up to the same thing.

And so once Swiss, like any other citizen, former foreigners find it convenient to close the door behind them, to protect their self interests too.
Isnt virtually any political position self serving? I have difficulty coming up with any significant stance by any political party that isn't in some way serving the best interests of that party or the lobbies that support it. Or when a proposal appears altruistic, often when you look more closely you'll see that it's just populism to garner votes while the party fully knows it will never have sufficient support to actually have to practice what it has preached. This is especially the populism that keeps small parties afloat.

There may be very few exceptions, such as saving the whales. But a lot of stuff that pretends to be altruism and idealism isn't. I thus prefer the parties who are honest about it and don't even pretend to be altruists.
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  #546  
Old 02.04.2014, 11:03
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Over the years I've found that much of the time it really just comes down to that people are basically are selfish hypocrites.

I remember a thread on an Irish forum, a few years ago, and one very vocal chap complaining about immigration in Ireland and how they were taking all the jobs - usual sort of Alf Garnet rant. Doing a quick search on his posting history, I found that at the same time he was posting on a thread about emigrating to Australia, where he stated he was in the process of doing so as he'd heard there were plenty of jobs going out there...

You'll tend to find quite often that people tend to hold convenient positions in debates, that in turn tend to coincide with positions that support their self interests and so are not afraid to be hypocritical when those positions are no longer convenient. Most tend to hide this hypocrisy in carefully constructed justifications, and are less blatant than the above example, but ultimately it all adds up to the same thing.

And so once Swiss, like any other citizen, former foreigners find it convenient to close the door behind them, to protect their self interests too.
I absolutely agree with everything you wrote here, and even add that this type of attitude is not specific to only one group of foreigners...it's human nature..
From the locals' perspective it's like when someone's a nice chap who comes from a poor land and takes on a humble job and does it without complain, but as soon as he climbs up a bit on the social ladder and even acquires a nice car he dreamed of back home...he's not that likeable anymore.
Humans...
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  #547  
Old 02.04.2014, 17:56
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Isnt virtually any political position self serving?
Sure - I was simply countering the 'foreigner complex' theory with an alternative.
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There may be very few exceptions, such as saving the whales. But a lot of stuff that pretends to be altruism and idealism isn't. I thus prefer the parties who are honest about it and don't even pretend to be altruists.
Altruism is easy when it doesn't cost you anything and you'll tend to find that most of these altruistic positions cost their supporters little and in return give them a warm fuzzy feeling of having done something good.

Classic example of this would be something like fox hunting, in countries like the UK. The bulk of support for it comes from the countryside, where people are employed by it and where farmers have an interest in fox numbers being controlled. Urban areas, by contrast, are unaffected economically, so they can afford to take the higher moral ground as it ultimately costs them nothing to do so.

Altruism and principle where there is a real cost - that's far more rare a commodity.
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  #548  
Old 03.04.2014, 00:15
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

According to the Swiss newspapers today, 145 researchers have asked the Swiss National Science Foundation (SNF) for research funds in the amount of 219 million francs to replace EU funds no longer available.
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  #549  
Old 03.04.2014, 00:32
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Over the years I've found that much of the time it really just comes down to that people are basically are selfish hypocrites.

I remember a thread on an Irish forum, a few years ago, and one very vocal chap complaining about immigration in Ireland and how they were taking all the jobs - usual sort of Alf Garnet rant. Doing a quick search on his posting history, I found that at the same time he was posting on a thread about emigrating to Australia, where he stated he was in the process of doing so as he'd heard there were plenty of jobs going out there...

You'll tend to find quite often that people tend to hold convenient positions in debates, that in turn tend to coincide with positions that support their self interests and so are not afraid to be hypocritical when those positions are no longer convenient. Most tend to hide this hypocrisy in carefully constructed justifications, and are less blatant than the above example, but ultimately it all adds up to the same thing.

And so once Swiss, like any other citizen, former foreigners find it convenient to close the door behind them, to protect their self interests too.



O yes the irish I am married to a irish girl here in Canada At one time , at a family gathering ,Aunt Molly was trashing all those no good immigrants . I had to remember her that she was a immigrant herself
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  #550  
Old 03.04.2014, 06:38
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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They do, as do other parties.

But no-one remembers any of them, regardless of the party.

I sure don't.

Tom
Many political advertisments are outright stupid. The Social Democrats in Glattbrugg had a fairly young candidate for the city government who was photographed wearing apparel which was "en vogue" for 10 years olds back around 1960 . The other one to be in the second round in May (both will get the required votes) is a CVP politician in the attire of a Züri-Unterland farmer on a Sunday-morning in the 1960ies, forgetting that the new Glattpark section of the town and the many ex-foreigners now CH-people in Glattbrugg have shifted the weights towards downtown.
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  #551  
Old 03.04.2014, 08:01
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Not receiving funds means that Swiss research can go in any direction that it sees fit. Given the massive wastage of large governing bodies (The EU and US government) it will help and not hurt the Swiss.

Money is never given without an "Indian handshake" these days. The way US AID operates is a classic example. They give aid and expect something in return, or they don´t give it.
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  #552  
Old 04.04.2014, 12:43
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Interview with Christoph Blocher: "No bilateral agreement is vital for Switzerland"

He goes on record saying he wants to go back to the quota system used in the 1970s.
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  #553  
Old 04.04.2014, 13:44
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Not receiving funds means that Swiss research can go in any direction that it sees fit. Given the massive wastage of large governing bodies (The EU and US government) it will help and not hurt the Swiss.

Money is never given without an "Indian handshake" these days. The way US AID operates is a classic example. They give aid and expect something in return, or they don´t give it.
Without EU funding the direction of Swiss research will be downwards and also reduced since there will fewer EU funded external researchers.
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Old 04.04.2014, 13:57
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Not receiving funds means that Swiss research can go in any direction that it sees fit. Given the massive wastage of large governing bodies (The EU and US government) it will help and not hurt the Swiss.

Money is never given without an "Indian handshake" these days. The way US AID operates is a classic example. They give aid and expect something in return, or they don´t give it.
As far as academic research is concerned, this is entirely false. There is no direction that research can take without funding. Funding overheads are within research institutions, not the government as a whole. There is no agenda that must be met.
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  #555  
Old 04.04.2014, 14:21
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Not receiving funds means that Swiss research can go in any direction that it sees fit. Given the massive wastage of large governing bodies (The EU and US government) it will help and not hurt the Swiss.

Money is never given without an "Indian handshake" these days. The way US AID operates is a classic example. They give aid and expect something in return, or they don´t give it.
Not receiving funds just means that we get less money and that we can do less things. For everything else, we know very well how to handle EU projects, and the EU regulations, it does not take that much really.
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Old 04.04.2014, 14:22
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As far as academic research is concerned, this is entirely false. There is no direction that research can take without funding. Funding overheads are within research institutions, not the government as a whole. There is no agenda that must be met.

Yo.
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Old 04.04.2014, 14:26
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Not receiving funds means that Swiss research can go in any direction that it sees fit. Given the massive wastage of large governing bodies (The EU and US government) it will help and not hurt the Swiss.
At least now we won't be forced to research a doomsday device or [INSERT OTHER CONSPIRACY THEORY] for the Größere Europäische Reich...
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  #558  
Old 04.04.2014, 14:41
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Interview with Christoph Blocher: "No bilateral agreement is vital for Switzerland"

He goes on record saying he wants to go back to the quota system used in the 1970s.
A very good idea.

Tom
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  #559  
Old 04.04.2014, 15:40
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A very good idea.

Tom
If they'll eventually get there, I only hope that it will be applied to each and every country.
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  #560  
Old 04.04.2014, 16:12
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Interview with Christoph Blocher: "No bilateral agreement is vital for Switzerland"

He goes on record saying he wants to go back to the quota system used in the 1970s.

It worked fine in the 80's & 90's too so why not? I managed to get a permit so it was quite possible if you had a skill tact did not exist in CH
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