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  #181  
Old 27.06.2014, 16:17
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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they abolished the secret vote a few years ago, now you know who voted no for you
But only citizens of the village can vote for this, not those who are only residents.

Tom
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  #182  
Old 27.06.2014, 23:34
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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most 100% natives are a citizen (and usually also a patrician) of some valley village in the same canton they live in
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My wife is a citizen of two villages in two different cantons (ZH and SG), but has never lived in either canton, nor does she speak the language!

And at this time of year she is quite brown indeed.

Tom
Tom, if I remember correctly, your wife is a native Swiss and has always held Swiss citizenship. She's always possessed rights which Aisha Mohammed does not have, and in the case of those cantons which you have mentioned, might even be the benefit of some slack which cantons are not willing to give non-Swiss. I realise that even Swiss citizens are expected to integrate and adapt to local customs and languages when they move to another part of the country, but I imagine it is much easier for a Swiss citizen from Zurich or Geneva to officially become Ticinese than a foreigner not born in Switzerland.
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  #183  
Old 03.07.2014, 18:17
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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In some comments references are made to the fact that the lady in question has been on social assistance for a long time, a fact which is a big no-no for naturalization in this country. To the best of my knowledge.

k_and_e beat me to it.
It's a big No-No in a lot of countries. When my wife came to the USA, I had been living in France for the 2 years a before, so my income registered in the poverty level in the states. So my father had to "co sign" for her. In it, it states, that in the first 10 years of her being in the USA, if she were to claim for benefits, then the government could seek to extract that money from my father. It was very clear. I was told, when I wanted to re new my papers to not be taking any money from the RAV or assistance of any kind.


Communally, she might be burden on that community. I mean, she has applied 4 times, and rejected 4 times. For how long of this time has she been on public assistance? What if, in your small town, a clear part of your taxes, were going to pay for someone that could not find a way to work, who was as able to(as far as I know) for what, 20 years maybe?


How racist is this truly? It seems if a community is predominantly white, and they take any pro community, but not in the interests of someone that happens to not be white, action, outsiders want to force them to do something that is against their best interests by pulling the race card. They approved her son, also not white, but they are still somehow ass backwards racist hillbillies.


I think if anyone wants to make comments, on people they do not know personally, should first go to this small town and ask them directly before passing judgment. You are doing the exact same thing, you are accusing others of doing.
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  #184  
Old 03.07.2014, 20:15
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

A dubious single case that is thankfully brought to your attention by the selfess Islamic lobby on EF. Go ahead and show them your support with an 11th page of answers
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  #185  
Old 03.07.2014, 20:17
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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A dubious single case that is thankfully brought to your attention by the sefless Islamic lobby on EF. Go ahead and show them your interest and support with an 11th page of answers
This is the expression of a parochial thought at a very embryonic stage.
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  #186  
Old 03.07.2014, 21:29
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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A dubious single case that is thankfully brought to your attention by the selfess Islamic lobby on EF. Go ahead and show them your support with an 11th page of answers
'The selfless Islamic lobby on EF' - name and shame!!!!
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  #187  
Old 03.07.2014, 23:32
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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She's hardly the one that should be made to change here
true, however it will be easier for her to make the move than to expect change from everyone else in that silly town
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  #188  
Old 04.07.2014, 08:33
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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I realise that even Swiss citizens are expected to integrate and adapt to local customs and languages when they move to another part of the country, but I imagine it is much easier for a Swiss citizen from Zurich or Geneva to officially become Ticinese than a foreigner not born in Switzerland.
Not really. Here's an example from a few years back. Guy lived in the village for 20-odd years, raised five kids there, was on various local committees, even served as mayor. Twice. You think if they'd let anyone be a citizen of their fine town it's him, right? Wrong.

http://archiv.onlinereports.ch/2000/AebiNenzlingen.htm

Among Mr. Aebi's alleged faults were that he didn't participate in enough/the right village events (although you'd think serving as mayor would count for something in that department...) and didn't frequent the church or the village shop regularly enough. He was also reputed to be a bit snooty and not down-to-earth enough with his neighbors: the accusations stopped just shy of willful non-Grüeziment but the sentiment's there.

Of course once you start looking into it, the actual reasons seem to go much deeper - in his case, local politics connected with the formation of canton Jura - but this is the stuff that was publicly brought up and argued as reason enough to refuse him village citizenship. Mr. Aebi applied twice and was refused twice, before the canton stepped in and basically forced the village to either accept him or come up with some more defensible reasons why not. (Over which noses are still out of joint to this day, by the way. People feel it may have been a shame what happened, but it was a village matter and none of the canton's business.)
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  #189  
Old 05.07.2014, 07:08
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Thank you very much, MathNut for that example. At the very least though, Heinz Aebi still possesses rights as a Swiss which the village of Nenzlinger must still respect even though he is not a citizen of the village. Do I have that right?
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  #190  
Old 05.07.2014, 11:40
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Thank you very much, MathNut for that example. At the very least though, Heinz Aebi still possesses rights as a Swiss which the village of Nenzlinger must still respect even though he is not a citizen of the village. Do I have that right?
Mr Aebi is Bernese and Swiss but wants to be Basler and Swiss

You see, when the Catholic northern part of the Bernese Jura seceded from the Canton of Bern, the German speaking Laufental was separated from Bern Mainland by the new Canton of Jura.

Mr Aebi therefore pushed through that the Laufental joined the Canton of Basel-Land., while many people in the Laufental felt Bernese, and regarded Mr Aebi as a traitor to their cause
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  #191  
Old 06.07.2014, 10:37
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

I had no idea someone could hold political office without being a Swiss citizen.

Cheers,
Nick
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  #192  
Old 06.07.2014, 10:41
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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I had no idea someone could hold political office without being a Swiss citizen.

Cheers,
Nick
I was thinking the same thing. That to me is very odd.
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  #193  
Old 06.07.2014, 11:12
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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I was thinking the same thing. That to me is very odd.
Why?
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  #194  
Old 06.07.2014, 13:07
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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I had no idea someone could hold political office without being a Swiss citizen.

Cheers,
Nick
He was and is a citizen of the Canton of BERN and so member of the club. But wants to become a citizen of the Canton of BASEL-Land and the village where he lives.

You can have political office in the Canton where you live or/and work while being citizen of another Canton
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  #195  
Old 06.07.2014, 13:56
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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He was and is a citizen of the Canton of BERN and so member of the club. But wants to become a citizen of the Canton of BASEL-Land and the village where he lives.

You can have political office in the Canton where you live or/and work while being citizen of another Canton
Thank you for the explanation. It made no sense that he could be mayor and not be a Swiss citizen.
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  #196  
Old 06.07.2014, 16:16
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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I had no idea someone could hold political office without being a Swiss citizen.

Cheers,
Nick
In Michigan Jennifer Granholm, previously the Attorney General and State Governor, holds both Canadian and American citizenships. Which some think isn't ethical to be governor of a state that borders the other country holds allegiance to.


I don't know about Switzerland. Can they?
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  #197  
Old 06.07.2014, 18:00
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

If she has been here for 21 years she must have had a job and paid into the system. No one knows whether she only worked 50% and was on welfare for 21 years?? It could be a recent thing. Anyway, her health issues are her private issue to deal with.
My guess is that some people saw the mohammed name in the local paper and the rest is just *stammtisch* brabble and rumours which lead to people voting no. (the stammtisch also being the secret power of the svp)

Another village in a relatively svp area used to have the same issue; that people who have lived here for most of their lives were declined communal citizenship by locals. They used to just publicate their names in a paper, lots of Eastern European and Turkish names. Then a miraculous thing happened: they changed the system so that people would have to go up there on voting day and introduce themselves to the people (in perfect Swiss german), and suddenly they were accepted!

A lot can come from prejudice but also a lot from overcoming it in such a homogenous country like switzerland! If I was that woman I would probably go from door to door and introduce myself, in rural areas people tend to 'not eat what they do not know'.
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  #198  
Old 06.07.2014, 18:06
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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If she has been here for 21 years she must have had a job and paid into the system. No one knows whether she only worked 50% and was on welfare for 21 years?? It could be a recent thing. Anyway, her health issues are her private issue to deal with.
My guess is that some people saw the mohammed name in the local paper and the rest is just *stammtisch* brabble and rumours which lead to people voting no. (the stammtisch also being the secret power of the svp)

Another village in a relatively svp area used to have the same issue; that people who have lived here for most of their lives were declined communal citizenship by locals. They used to just publicate their names in a paper, lots of Eastern European and Turkish names. Then a miraculous thing happened: they changed the system so that people would have to go up there on voting day and introduce themselves to the people (in perfect Swiss german), and suddenly they were accepted!

A lot can come from prejudice but also a lot from overcoming it in such a homogenous country like switzerland! If I was that woman I would probably go from door to door and introduce myself, in rural areas people tend to 'not eat what they do not know'.
You are overlooking the fact that her son was given the right to Swiss Citizenship in the same village.
And even if she did pay into the system, like everyone, there is a limit to how many years you get money back. What then happens is, if you are in dire situation, and have kids, the local gemeinde offers assistance. Of which, you are supposed to pay that back, eventually if you turn things around. If she has accepted this kind of help, and has been on it for an extended time frame, it does start to annoy people. Especially if your neighbors think you are capable of working. I am not suggesting she is scamming the system, but blaming the SVP, and people because you or anyone wants to call them racists, when they obviously are not racists in this case, and there is a real reason why they are not happy about her, is so typical. And boring as well.
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Old 06.07.2014, 22:50
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

I've even heard an Austrian becoming the supreme ruler of Germany.

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In Michigan Jennifer Granholm, previously the Attorney General and State Governor, holds both Canadian and American citizenships. Which some think isn't ethical to be governor of a state that borders the other country holds allegiance to.


I don't know about Switzerland. Can they?
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  #200  
Old 06.07.2014, 22:52
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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In Michigan Jennifer Granholm, previously the Attorney General and State Governor, holds both Canadian and American citizenships. Which some think isn't ethical to be governor of a state that borders the other country holds allegiance to.


I don't know about Switzerland. Can they?
Why wouldn't they? It would be very discrimnating if they had second class civic rights i.e were second class citizens, wouldn't it?







Source [German]:
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Sofern keine Sonderregelung besteht, wird für die Staatsangehörigkeit von schweizerisch ausländischen Doppelbürgern auf das Schweizer Bürgerrecht abgestellt. Doppelbürger üben grundsätzlich alle Rechte aus und erfüllen alle Pflichten, wie wenn sie nur Schweizer Bürger wären. Sie können zum Beispiel das aktive und passive Wahlrecht ausüben, wie wenn sie nur das Schweizer Bürgerrecht hätten. Sonderregeln bestehen bei der Wehrpflicht [...]
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If no special rules apply, the citizenship of swiss-foreign double citizens is based on the Swiss civic rights. Double citizens posess fundamentally the same civic rights as if they had only Swiss citizenship. They can, for example, excertise the active and passive right to vote as if they were only Swiss citizens. Special rules apply regarding military service [...]

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