Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #241  
Old 25.09.2015, 12:16
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,061
Groaned at 294 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 5,125 Times in 1,827 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Dear Ace1, why do you delete my post as inappropriate and not that of the lynching? A bit of consistency please.
Reply With Quote
  #242  
Old 25.09.2015, 12:22
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
Is that not just a massive oxymoron? How can the a decision that goes against the views of majority of the people who are closest to the issue be democratic?

Due to the constitution
Reply With Quote
  #243  
Old 25.09.2015, 12:56
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Engelberg & near Basel
Posts: 5,855
Groaned at 167 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,886 Times in 3,980 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
Dear Ace1, why do you delete my post as inappropriate and not that of the lynching? A bit of consistency please.
Because there are ways that mods work, like acting on reported posts, and ways we don't work, like reading every single post that's made in every single discussion even if we're neither interested nor otherwise involved in said thread.
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old 25.09.2015, 12:59
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 737
Groaned at 328 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 1,374 Times in 546 Posts
idefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of many
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
Dear Ace1, why do you delete my post as inappropriate and not that of the lynching? A bit of consistency please.
Because we can't say anything about the Holocaust, you imagine why
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old 25.09.2015, 13:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,101
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 6,059 Times in 3,274 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Wonder if the American university professor has got his well deserved citizenship by now...
Any news about him?
Let me remind you about him, poor guy, I remember the attitudes were totally opposed there. A little consistency EFers, really...Not much to ask, isn't it?

American professor denied Swiss citizenship
Reply With Quote
  #246  
Old 25.09.2015, 13:02
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Was Belgium now Neuchâtel
Posts: 8,195
Groaned at 60 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 10,208 Times in 4,909 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
Because there are ways that mods work, like acting on reported posts, and ways we don't work, like reading every single post that's made in every single discussion even if we're neither interested nor otherwise involved in said thread.
Now you've also removed the lynching image could you also remove it from the quoted post maybe?

Last edited by Belgianmum; 25.09.2015 at 13:14.
Reply With Quote
  #247  
Old 25.09.2015, 13:11
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 737
Groaned at 328 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 1,374 Times in 546 Posts
idefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of many
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
Wonder if the American university professor has got his well deserved citizenship by now...
Any news about him?
Let me remind you about him, poor guy, I remember the attitudes were totally opposed there. A little consistency EFers, really...Not much to ask, isn't it?

American professor denied Swiss citizenship
He doesn't cry in all the newspapers "The Swiss are RACIST, RACIST, RACIST!" so no citizenship for him!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank idefix for this useful post:
  #248  
Old 25.09.2015, 16:40
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
a Pakistani woman whose kids are all Swiss citizens getting fair treatment in a country she has lived in and contributed to for decades?
How did Aisha contribute to her community? The gemeinde decisions cite her drawing social help from their coffers, I think implying she has not contributed to her community. But where do you see her contributions?

So the Swiss have laws and traditions on how they accept a new member into their communities. There are also housing complexes I know of where candidate apply and approved by existing tenants. Is that wrong?

I prefer how Switzerland has communities, and everyone is expected to pull their weight. Oftentimes, they also pitch together to pull others out of a jam. Part of this is having some say on what happens in their communities. They have some skin in the game. Where I come from, nobody really cares about the community and it is visible in the way it looks and how it operates. I suppose if I wanted that, I would move there. But generally, I think its a bad message to send to communities that they don't really have a say on what goes there. I think they would simply stop to care, and it would show. I don't think the same values practiced in other places is applicable the same way here in Switzerland.
__________________
exceptio probat regulam
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #249  
Old 25.09.2015, 17:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,101
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 6,059 Times in 3,274 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
He doesn't cry in all the newspapers "The Swiss are RACIST, RACIST, RACIST!" so no citizenship for him!
Maybe they are, however....that was not my point. How should I put it? I'm much more sympathetic with Aisha than with those EFers defending Aisha...if that makes any sense to you.
I don't really value people who always feel the need to be in line with whatever mainstream propaganda says. (or any other propaganda, as a matter of fact)
Curious reactions, considering how the other thread went. Just sayin'....each to their own, of course.
Reply With Quote
  #250  
Old 27.09.2015, 09:53
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
He doesn't cry in all the newspapers "The Swiss are RACIST, RACIST, RACIST!" so no citizenship for him!

Had the man applied for SZ citizenship in Lachen, we whould now be member of the Club ----- But of course, negative in case of Einsiedeln
Reply With Quote
  #251  
Old 28.09.2015, 12:45
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,318
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
How did Aisha contribute to her community? The gemeinde decisions cite her drawing social help from their coffers, I think implying she has not contributed to her community. But where do you see her contributions?

So the Swiss have laws and traditions on how they accept a new member into their communities. There are also housing complexes I know of where candidate apply and approved by existing tenants. Is that wrong?

I prefer how Switzerland has communities, and everyone is expected to pull their weight. Oftentimes, they also pitch together to pull others out of a jam. Part of this is having some say on what happens in their communities. They have some skin in the game. Where I come from, nobody really cares about the community and it is visible in the way it looks and how it operates. I suppose if I wanted that, I would move there. But generally, I think its a bad message to send to communities that they don't really have a say on what goes there. I think they would simply stop to care, and it would show. I don't think the same values practiced in other places is applicable the same way here in Switzerland.
This topic came up in a general discussion over the weekend, with some Swiss folk, and they had an interesting slant on the reason for her being denied......

Seems the reason for wanting a Swiss Passport/Citizenship is being then eligible for the AHV pension. So... the lady is wanting the social old age pension, without having contributed to it in any way?
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #252  
Old 28.09.2015, 12:53
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,400
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,576 Times in 6,201 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
the Swiss Confederation is the Union of the Cantons. And the Sovereignty of the Cantons is the Basis of democracy
I think you've got it wrong.

The right to self determination is the most basic and fundamental right and organized democracy is a construct to fulfill and apply that right. It is thus itself only an interpretation. The cantons do not give democratic rights to anyone but exist because of it.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #253  
Old 28.09.2015, 14:29
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

The process of admitting a new member to a community goes back to the age of city-states. I've seen it codified in old Geneva laws, as well as Zwinglian laws. Existing members of the community attest that the applicant is a bona fide and sincere participant in the community. Not sure if it is true, but I was told Madonna applied for Geneva citizenship, but was denied.

Most cultures have a similar process for the rite of passage into adulthood, as a fully participating and engaged member of that community. Some American tribes go through a vision quest where the person gets their name. Aborigines in Australia go on dream walks. Jews have Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah.

In the case of Switzerland, I would agree to this community process for the simple reason that it works. Communities in Switzerland reallly do work, and work well. I don't think it is broken. In fact, it is a valid model for other countries to follow. So why mess with it now? Why strive for other alternative processes that have not been proven to work anywhere else in the world? Has the "Politically Correct" process worked in the UK, Sweden, US, etc.?

I think it was wrong for the Canton to override the community. If they wanted to help Aisha along, they should have simply advised her on how to become a bona fide member of the community, then encourage and help her towards that goal.
__________________
exceptio probat regulam

Last edited by Phos; 28.09.2015 at 15:01.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #254  
Old 28.09.2015, 15:37
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
This topic came up in a general discussion over the weekend, with some Swiss folk, and they had an interesting slant on the reason for her being denied......

Seems the reason for wanting a Swiss Passport/Citizenship is being then eligible for the AHV pension. So... the lady is wanting the social old age pension, without having contributed to it in any way?

Also foreigners who have worked in Switzerland get the AHV, even if they move to their home-countries. Dad was AHV-REVISOR and often made this secure But as she had not worked here she will not get AHV, she however will get EL Ergänzungsleistungen even if she is not to get AHV as she cared for children here
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #255  
Old 28.09.2015, 15:40
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
I think you've got it wrong.

The right to self determination is the most basic and fundamental right and organized democracy is a construct to fulfill and apply that right. It is thus itself only an interpretation. The cantons do not give democratic rights to anyone but exist because of it.

The cantons have founded the Union in 1848/49 in Solothurn. The Union exists due to the states. The right of self-determination is the right of the Cantons
Reply With Quote
  #256  
Old 28.09.2015, 15:44
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
The process of admitting a new member to a community goes back to the age of city-states. I've seen it codified in old Geneva laws, as well as Zwinglian laws. Existing members of the community attest that the applicant is a bona fide and sincere participant in the community. Not sure if it is true, but I was told Madonna applied for Geneva citizenship, but was denied.

Most cultures have a similar process for the rite of passage into adulthood, as a fully participating and engaged member of that community. Some American tribes go through a vision quest where the person gets their name. Aborigines in Australia go on dream walks. Jews have Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah.

In the case of Switzerland, I would agree to this community process for the simple reason that it works. Communities in Switzerland reallly do work, and work well. I don't think it is broken. In fact, it is a valid model for other countries to follow. So why mess with it now? Why strive for other alternative processes that have not been proven to work anywhere else in the world? Has the "Politically Correct" process worked in the UK, Sweden, US, etc.?

I think it was wrong for the Canton to override the community. If they wanted to help Aisha along, they should have simply advised her on how to become a bona fide member of the community, then encourage and help her towards that goal.

The Canton of Zürich took the right to approve citizenship away from the communes and transferred it to the Canton in full
Reply With Quote
  #257  
Old 28.09.2015, 16:09
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
The process of admitting a new member to a community goes back to the age of city-states. I've seen it codified in old Geneva laws, as well as Zwinglian laws. Existing members of the community attest that the applicant is a bona fide and sincere participant in the community. Not sure if it is true, but I was told Madonna applied for Geneva citizenship, but was denied.

Most cultures have a similar process for the rite of passage into adulthood, as a fully participating and engaged member of that community. Some American tribes go through a vision quest where the person gets their name. Aborigines in Australia go on dream walks. Jews have Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah.

In the case of Switzerland, I would agree to this community process for the simple reason that it works. Communities in Switzerland reallly do work, and work well. I don't think it is broken. In fact, it is a valid model for other countries to follow. So why mess with it now? Why strive for other alternative processes that have not been proven to work anywhere else in the world? Has the "Politically Correct" process worked in the UK, Sweden, US, etc.?

I think it was wrong for the Canton to override the community. If they wanted to help Aisha along, they should have simply advised her on how to become a bona fide member of the community, then encourage and help her towards that goal.

The Cantonal governement could not proceed as you state. No way. They had to proceed according to the law. The rule of the Canton is very well proven and they acted very much up to the point
Reply With Quote
  #258  
Old 28.09.2015, 17:41
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,069
Groaned at 924 Times in 720 Posts
Thanked 19,591 Times in 9,430 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
Seems the reason for wanting a Swiss Passport/Citizenship is being then eligible for the AHV pension. So... the lady is wanting the social old age pension, without having contributed to it in any way?
Yes, but even un-employed Swiss people have to make AHV contributions.

She won't get much if she hasn't contributed.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #259  
Old 28.09.2015, 17:59
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,355
Groaned at 368 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 22,366 Times in 10,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

I am Swiss, born and bred- and live in Switzerland in retirement. I am getting zilch, nothing, de nada for my pension here. Because I lived all my adult life abroad and did not contribute to the Swiss AVS system (a shame, but fair enough, I say).

Last edited by Odile; 28.09.2015 at 19:01.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #260  
Old 28.09.2015, 19:13
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,318
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but even un-employed Swiss people have to make AHV contributions.

She won't get much if she hasn't contributed.

Tom

My Swiss mother-in-law gets more AHV than her husband - she has never worked outside of the house her entire life - just housewife and mother - a farm girl. How does that work? She never contributed to it. Her husband did when he worked and then when self-employed, but not for her. (Something to do with raising children apparently?) Oh, or maybe his was slightly higher to cover her? But then why does she get more than him?

But then again - O/H`s ex will receive more AHV than him, and she only worked (never more than 50%) later in life once the kids had grown up - whereas O/H has contributed his entire life. Apparently for her it is for having cared for/raised her Swiss children.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
aargau, commune, naturalization, provincialism, village




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can I get Swiss citizenship after 6 years of marriage to a Swiss citizen? nonameface13 Permits/visas/government 22 21.01.2013 13:40
Swiss inheritance law applied to American with dual Swiss citizenship bmjnyc Finance/banking/taxation 5 11.03.2012 13:58
Mohammed #1 baby boy name in UK TheSpouse International affairs/politics 55 30.10.2010 23:01
Swiss citizenship for babies born to Non Swiss Nationals? AlainaS Family matters/health 31 26.06.2009 00:41


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0