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  #21  
Old 25.06.2014, 23:54
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

General question - is there any industrialized country where you'd get citizenship if you live off social welfare (no matter to what extent) and have so for years?

It's an honest question, I really don't know.

At the same time, though, what does it matter, she gets social welfare anyway already, not sure what would change if she were be a citizen rather than on a (presumed) C permit or so...

Needless to say the "official" reasons for denying the application are all ridiculous. But I don't want to scream racism just yet when it might be something else. I presume it's the same commune who gave citizenship to her children. So there must be a reason why they didn't give it to her specifically, several times no less and in a pretty decisive manner (124:24 votes), and I doubt it's just because she didn't go to Fasnacht… But who knows, I'm sure there's areas that are backwards like this, but something just doesn't quite add up...

Last edited by Samaire13; 26.06.2014 at 00:00. Reason: Grammar
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  #22  
Old 25.06.2014, 23:59
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Do we know she's on social? Or is this just from comments?

Don't read German here
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  #23  
Old 26.06.2014, 00:01
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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She's hardly the one that should be made to change here
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In her shoes I would apply as often as possible, and start to greet the biggest racists from across the street: forcing them to wave back to her.
If I were her I would keep applying, eventually she'll get it. And once she does, citizenship in hand, she can tell all those commune-rs to stuff it and move on.

If the crux of the issue is the sozialhilfe, could her children declare/agree to support her without her needing the public help? I don't know their financial situation, just an idea that could unblock the situation perhaps.
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  #24  
Old 26.06.2014, 00:03
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Do we know she's on social? Or is this just from comments?

Don't read German here
She is. Below a quote from the article:

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Die fünffache Mutter ist heute 47 Jahre alt, geht Teilzeit putzen und bezieht Sozialhilfe.
i.e. she's working part-time as a cleaner and gets social welfare.
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Old 26.06.2014, 00:04
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Do we know she's on social? Or is this just from comments?

Don't read German here
she get's welfare payment and she works part-time. Again could be for health reasons that she works only part-time.

So if someone is disabled and gets welfare...can't get swiss citizenship?
You won't be surprised to hear that the president of commune Markus Lüthy is member of....SVP.
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  #26  
Old 26.06.2014, 00:11
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

So I am actually really interested in this and found an old article in the Tagi (reliable enough) from 2009:

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich/...story/31644715

It says that people who apply for citizenship need "to be able to financially take care of themselves and their family". Clearly, this is not the case. It further says that a person is not eligible for citizenship if they've claimed social welfare in the three years prior to their citizenship application.

Well there it is then. Provided these rules still apply today, five years after that article.


Btw, again, I'm pretty sure this is hardly Switzerland-specific, hence my question above.
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  #27  
Old 26.06.2014, 00:21
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

It seems peculiar she got so far in the process if the social Is the limiting factor.
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  #28  
Old 26.06.2014, 00:27
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Oh, really!? Please, gimme a break!

Then why didn't they just state that as the reason each time her application was denied by citing the law instead of the quite frankly ridiculous reasons as listed in post #1 ?!!

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So I am actually really interested in this and found an old article in the Tagi (reliable enough) from 2009:

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich/...story/31644715

It says that people who apply for citizenship need "to be able to financially take care of themselves and their family". Clearly, this is not the case. It further says that a person is not eligible for citizenship if they've claimed social welfare in the three years prior to their citizenship application.

Well there it is then. Provided these rules still apply today, five years after that article.


Btw, again, I'm pretty sure this is hardly Switzerland-specific, hence my question above.
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  #29  
Old 26.06.2014, 00:33
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Oh, really!? Please, gimme a break!

Then why didn't they just state that as the reason each time her application was denied by citing the law instead of the quite frankly ridiculous reasons as listed in post #1 ?!!
How would I know…

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It seems peculiar she got so far in the process if the social Is the limiting factor.
That might be because the state (and highly likely canton) don't pay for her and hence don't care as much. Emphasis on "might", as again, I don't know. It doesn't explain the weird excuses/"explanations"

Brings me back to: something doesn't add up here.
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Old 26.06.2014, 00:40
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

I think it's wrong that the gemeinde has a say in something like Naturalisation. There should be a set of requirements, that applies to everyone, regardless of Canton, and Bern should decide.

Could you imagine living in the UK or US and having a say if a person in your village should gain citizenship or not …. it's open for abuse!
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  #31  
Old 26.06.2014, 00:42
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Sorry, I did not get the full story either. Why does she need Swiss citizenship?
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  #32  
Old 26.06.2014, 00:46
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Another article date 21 June from Aargauer Zeitung gives more details. The fact that she mandated a lawyer to object the second refusal was not appreciated by the commune. She filed a complaint to police about an article on her. The conclusion of the paper is that showing tenacity is not well perceived by the commune. It's more a who is going to lose face now problem for the commune.
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  #33  
Old 26.06.2014, 00:46
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Sorry, I did not get the full story either. Why does she need Swiss citizenship?
Exactly. What does she think she is? Some caucasion with a mullet?

Do you think a swiss living in Pakistan would get citizenship if she didn't say salam to anyone?

I say just deport her.
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  #34  
Old 26.06.2014, 01:00
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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The land of milk and honey.

Israel ??
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Old 26.06.2014, 01:10
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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I think it's wrong that the gemeinde has a say in something like Naturalisation. There should be a set of requirements, that applies to everyone, regardless of Canton, and Bern should decide.

Could you imagine living in the UK or US and having a say if a person in your village should gain citizenship or not …. it's open for abuse!
Yea and I would like to change the rule in UK so my wife gets a pension . Help me please IM
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  #36  
Old 26.06.2014, 01:46
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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I think it's wrong that the gemeinde has a say in something like Naturalisation. There should be a set of requirements, that applies to everyone, regardless of Canton, and Bern should decide.

Could you imagine living in the UK or US and having a say if a person in your village should gain citizenship or not …. it's open for abuse!
Switzerland is spiritually a confederation and you're citizen of the confederation because you are a citizen of your canton, not the other way round.
Bern can't have all the information to take proper decisions without building a huge bureaucracy and hiring field agents. So it gives a green light based on certain parameters (they probably check with the intelligence service and stuff), then the canton and the commune dwelve more into the details and conduct interviews. It's a top-light country. This is good against bureaucracy, but it can create issues in small communes when it comes to naturalizations, correct.

Even if she isn't able to support herself, she can stay if she's on a C permit afaik.
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  #37  
Old 26.06.2014, 02:01
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

'Twas a rhetorical question. Wouldn't expect you to...

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How would I know…

...
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  #38  
Old 26.06.2014, 07:47
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Israel ??
I was being facetious. It was a term, loosely used in another thread.

I think people might reproach this woman behaving a bit too assertively than they'd expect A) from a woman, B) being from a difficult place. Maybe.. It might be confusing their charitable spirits. Flat out discrimination shows low quality political discourse.
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  #39  
Old 26.06.2014, 09:20
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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General question - is there any industrialized country where you'd get citizenship if you live off social welfare (no matter to what extent) and have so for years?

It's an honest question, I really don't know.

At the same time, though, what does it matter, she gets social welfare anyway already, not sure what would change if she were be a citizen rather than on a (presumed) C permit or so...

Needless to say the "official" reasons for denying the application are all ridiculous. But I don't want to scream racism just yet when it might be something else. I presume it's the same commune who gave citizenship to her children. So there must be a reason why they didn't give it to her specifically, several times no less and in a pretty decisive manner (124:24 votes), and I doubt it's just because she didn't go to Fasnacht… But who knows, I'm sure there's areas that are backwards like this, but something just doesn't quite add up...
UK would not use benefits as a reason to deny citizenship, it's part of fitting in
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  #40  
Old 26.06.2014, 09:26
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Switzerland is spiritually a confederation and you're citizen of the confederation because you are a citizen of your canton, not the other way round.
And you are first and foremost a citizen of your town.

Or a town or two that you've never been to.

Tom
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