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  #41  
Old 26.06.2014, 09:30
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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UK would not use benefits as a reason to deny citizenship, it's part of fitting in
Ah social benefits are argument to deny citizenship? Is that what many folks do rip in Switzerland anyway?

It must be ill mannered community that should be revoked citizenships because they seem to be real a$$holes here.

Send them to the third world countries for a month or so so that they can taste their medication.
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  #42  
Old 26.06.2014, 09:48
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Don´t more countries than just Switzerland deny citizenship if you are on benefits?
Not agreeing with this, but I would imagine that Switzerland is not the only country to do so.
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  #43  
Old 26.06.2014, 10:08
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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As bad as this racism is, I figure that she's still better off in Aargau rather than Pakistan because they haven't mobilized packs of angry young men who want to stone a woman to death for farting in public in Erlinsbach just yet.
Thing is most of the world would be better off in Switzerland rather than wherever else they might be.

That's basically the point - it's an effort to discourage economic migration.

Personally I feel that anyone who can't demonstrate a net financial benefit to the immigrating country as an immigrant has a weak case - nothing to do with racism but economics.
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  #44  
Old 26.06.2014, 10:20
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Thing is most of the world would be better off in Switzerland rather than wherever else they might be.

That's basically the point - it's an effort to discourage economic migration.

Personally I feel that anyone who can't demonstrate a net financial benefit to the immigrating country as an immigrant has a weak case - nothing to do with racism but economics.
This is the funniest thread ever. She's been in Switzerland for over 2 decades, given birth to Swiss children...You grant her citizenship! If she develops a medical problem or falls on hard times and you can't make money from her that's too bad.

But I love the scrambling about to rationalise this. After all, you can build any tower you like as long as it's not a Muslim tower and you can kill an animal to eat with a 12 gauge over/under and watch it walk around wounded for a few minutes but if you're a Muslim with a sharp knife, not so much. Enjoy your lives here, sure, but don't think you aren't benefitting from endemic racism.
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  #45  
Old 26.06.2014, 10:27
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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She's been in Switzerland for over 4 decades.
Since when does 21 years = over 4 decades?

Tom
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  #46  
Old 26.06.2014, 10:28
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Since when does 21 years = over 4 decades?

Tom
Apologies, writing on a phone, I've edited it now. The point remains the same.
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  #47  
Old 26.06.2014, 10:29
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

And then we have the case of an Eritrean wife in Brunnen who's gone missing.

There seems to be a number of cases where wives and older female children from Eritrea have suddenly disappeared. After investigating many of these cases, the Federal government has found that usually these woman were not who they said they were in their documents and used the Schengen agreement with Eritrea to enter Switzerland as a "wife" or "child" in order to make a life on their own somewhere else.

I would like to see Aisha Mohammed become Swiss as much as I would like to see peace in the Middle East and Africa. It's an unfair world.
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  #48  
Old 26.06.2014, 10:32
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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And then we have the case of an Eritrean wife in Brunnen who's gone missing.

There seems to be a number of cases where wives and older female children from Eritrea have suddenly disappeared. After investigating many of these cases, the Federal government has found that usually these woman were not who they said they were in their documents and used the Schengen agreement with Eritrea to enter Switzerland as a "wife" or "child" in order to make a life on their own somewhere else.

I would like to see Aisha Mohammed become Swiss as much as I would like to see peace in the Middle East and Africa. It's an unfair world.
Or at least an unfair village. But way to throw the Eritrean red herring in there - naturalization applications are assessed on a case by case basis so no other trends about Eritreans and what have you are relevant.
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Old 26.06.2014, 10:37
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Where is the husband or ex-husband and/or father of the children in all this?

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That's basically the point - it's an effort to discourage economic migration.

Personally I feel that anyone who can't demonstrate a net financial benefit to the immigrating country as an immigrant has a weak case - nothing to do with racism but economics.
I'm inclined to agree and it's actually also clearly regulated this way by law. And again, I highly doubt this is a Switzerland-specific thing. I would be very surprised if I got let's say US citizenship after living off social welfare in the US for years.

Also, please don't forget that she indeed gets social welfare and has likely been getting it for years, if not decades, and no one has threatened to deport her in any way. So I ask again, what exactly would be her benefits of becoming a Swiss citizen? She sure is on a C, can't possibly a B after 21 years, and is effectively a permanent resident here with all the benefits (and obligations!) that come along with it - so why is the change of passport so important?
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Old 26.06.2014, 10:41
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Or at least an unfair village. But way to throw the Eritrean red herring in there - naturalization applications are assessed on a case by case basis so no other trends about Eritreans and what have you are relevant.
It is only relevant in that these headlines make it harder for good people to become naturalized.
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  #51  
Old 26.06.2014, 10:41
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Where is the husband or ex-husband and/or father of the children in all this?



I'm inclined to agree and it's actually also clearly regulated this way by law. And again, I highly doubt this is a Switzerland-specific thing. I would be very surprised if I got let's say US citizenship after living off social welfare in the US for years.

Also, please don't forget that she indeed gets social welfare and has likely been getting it for years, if not decades, and no one has threatened to deport her in any way. So I ask again, what exactly would be her benefits of becoming a Swiss citizen? She sure is on a C, can't possibly a B after 21 years, and is effectively a permanent resident here with all the benefits (and obligations!) that come along with it - so why is the change of passport so important?
This is a nauseating post. Shame on you.
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  #52  
Old 26.06.2014, 10:49
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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This is a nauseating post. Shame on you.
How so? I simply fail to see what the massive advantage would be in having a Swiss passport rather than a C permit. And it was an honest question and maybe someone can explain to me what the difference is.
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  #53  
Old 26.06.2014, 10:50
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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This is the funniest thread ever. She's been in Switzerland for over 2 decades, given birth to Swiss children...You grant her citizenship! If she develops a medical problem or falls on hard times and you can't make money from her that's too bad.

But I love the scrambling about to rationalise this. After all, you can build any tower you like as long as it's not a Muslim tower and you can kill an animal to eat with a 12 gauge over/under and watch it walk around wounded for a few minutes but if you're a Muslim with a sharp knife, not so much. Enjoy your lives here, sure, but don't think you aren't benefitting from endemic racism.
If I come to your home and you don't like me , should i moan and piss about it if you decide to kick me out ???

The fairest thing to do is for you to exercise your democratic right and support this person financially - to the extent that it removes any liability from the community body - that way she gets what she wants - cash - and you get what you want.
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Old 26.06.2014, 10:52
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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I'm inclined to agree and it's actually also clearly regulated this way by law. And again, I highly doubt this is a Switzerland-specific thing. I would be very surprised if I got let's say US citizenship after living off social welfare in the US for years.

Also, please don't forget that she indeed gets social welfare and has likely been getting it for years, if not decades, and no one has threatened to deport her in any way.
I think many many people would even question why she has not been deported - I have a friend who was in this situation and WAS deported but she accepted that she didn't have something to offer the state.
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  #55  
Old 26.06.2014, 10:54
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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given birth to Swiss children...
Btw, about this: she hasn't given birth to Swiss children. Being born in Switzerland doesn't automatically give you Swiss citizenship, contrary to what is the case in the US, UK and I guess some other countries.

But as it said in the article, her children were granted Swiss citizenship at some point. In the same commune. Likely by the very same people. And that brings me - yet again - back to what I said and asked a few times already, i.e.: why the children, but not her, and again, there must be something to this story that is not being told.
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Old 26.06.2014, 10:59
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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How so? I simply fail to see what the massive advantage would be in having a Swiss passport rather than a C permit. And it was an honest question and maybe someone can explain to me what the difference is.
She would have the right to vote, which given the recent spate of xenophobic election campaigns would not be such a bad thing.
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Old 26.06.2014, 11:01
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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I think many many people would even question why she has not been deported - I have a friend who was in this situation and WAS deported but she accepted that she didn't have something to offer the state.
That's quite extreme... And she was on a C permit?

To bring in another perspective - I have a friend, born in Switzerland to Italian parents, lived here for over 40 years, never lived anywhere else. Both his parents and himself still have C permits, none of them ever applied for Swiss citizenship. I didn't even know he was still "officially Italian" for almost 10 years. I once asked them as to why they never bothered to apply for Swiss citizenship - they said it simply made zero difference to them.
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Old 26.06.2014, 11:04
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Not the first time a story like that is emerging from Aargau. The only advice anyone can give her is to move away from that backward, racist hellhole and try again in a few years in a more civilized area of Switzerland.
Sounds like Nidwalden
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Old 26.06.2014, 11:20
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Also, please don't forget that she indeed gets social welfare and has likely been getting it for years, if not decades, and no one has threatened to deport her in any way. So I ask again, what exactly would be her benefits of becoming a Swiss citizen? She sure is on a C, can't possibly a B after 21 years, and is effectively a permanent resident here with all the benefits (and obligations!) that come along with it - so why is the change of passport so important?
I also can't understand the wish to become Swiss (unless you're an American escaping the tax man). I could live here the next 40 years and can't see myself ever having any great urge to apply for the red passport.
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Old 26.06.2014, 11:28
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

For those who are actually interested in the background rather than just shouting "racism", and also understand German, here's a little more information: http://www.weltwoche.ch/ausgaben/201...be-192011.html

Specifically relevant:

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Willkommen im helvetischen Behörden- und Richterstaat. Seit Mai 1994 lebt das pakistanische Ehepaar Mohammad-Tur in der Schweiz. Inzwischen mit fünf Kindern. Eingereist ist die Familie über das Asylverfahren. Es folgte die übliche Verzögerungsstafette. Obschon das Gesuch abschlägig beurteilt wurde, blieben die Mohammads im Land. Bis heute.

Vor rund einem halben Jahr wandelte der Kanton Aargau ihren Aufenthaltsstatus von F («Vorläufig Aufgenommene») auf B um («Anerkannte Flüchtlinge»). Ein juristischer Ritterschlag mit Folgen für die Wohngemeinde Erlinsbach: Sie muss nun vollumfänglich für den Lebensunterhalt der Pakistani aufkommen. Denn so erfolgreich Vater Khalid nach sechzehn Jahren eine Schweizer Aufenthaltsbewilligung erstritt, so wenig erfolgreich ist er als Ernährer: Die Asylantenfamilie lebt von der öffentlichen Hand.

2007 stellt das Ehepaar mit seinen Kindern ein erstes Einbürgerungsgesuch. Das Paket scheitert am Vater. Er hat einen Eintrag im Strafregister. 2008 nehmen die Frau und vier ihrer Kinder einen weiteren Anlauf. Der Gemeinderat beantragt eine Ablehnung: unter anderem wegen der mangelhaften Deutschkenntnisse.
The gist of it: they came here as asylum-seekers in 1994, their application for asylum was declined, they stayed anyway and fought for ages to get residency status. 16 years later (2010/2011), their F permit was finally transferred to a B. At that point, they'd been living off social welfare for a while (doesn't specifically say as of when). They first applied for Swiss citizenship as a "family/couple with children" - this was denied as the father has a criminal record. A year later, the woman applies again, just for herself and four of her five kids, as the husband's record is clearly a hurdle...
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