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  #161  
Old 27.06.2014, 08:07
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Nor is my Swiss husband . But I am, being a foreigner, and finding its sort of expected of me ..... support the ladies club, bake cakes, serve coffee, say Gruetzi to everyone. Maybe one day I may need to have impressed the locals that I did try to fit in. Its called attempting to integrate into the society I live in.
this is exactly why I do not get the passport, i.e. you're required to be more swiss than the swiss…and kiss some asses to that…no thanks
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  #162  
Old 27.06.2014, 09:23
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Since most of the people on this thread are not native Swiss but were born somewhere else, I'd like to pose a question. How many of you, back when you were home, would have been considered "integrated" into your society by Swiss standards, and I don't mean by knowing the national language? I know pretty much that I would not be.
Yeah, not at all.
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Old 27.06.2014, 09:31
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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How many of you, back when you were home, would have been considered "integrated" into your society by Swiss standards, and I don't mean by knowing the national language? I know pretty much that I would not be.
There are no 'Swiss' standards.

And the local ones are pretty much like back in NE, i.e. maybe start talking to some of the neighbors after a few years or ten, etc.

Tom
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  #164  
Old 27.06.2014, 10:35
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Since most of the people on this thread are not native Swiss but were born somewhere else, I'd like to pose a question. How many of you, back when you were home, would have been considered "integrated" into your society by Swiss standards, and I don't mean by knowing the national language? I know pretty much that I would not be.
They're probably more permissive in a big city, but when I was asked during my naturalization interview how I could consider myself "integrated", I went into a mini-soliloquy questioning what the term even meant. My conclusion was something to the effect of, "I have Swiss friends, say hi to my neighbors in the elevator, and shop at the local butcher's shop, and I'd argue that's as integrated as most Swiss people are." And even that last part was a lie, I get most of my meat in France.
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  #165  
Old 27.06.2014, 10:47
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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They're probably more permissive in a big city, but when I was asked during my naturalization interview how I could consider myself "integrated", I went into a mini-soliloquy questioning what the term even meant. My conclusion was something to the effect of, "I have Swiss friends, say hi to my neighbors in the elevator, and shop at the local butcher's shop, and I'd argue that's as integrated as most Swiss people are." And even that last part was a lie, I get most of my meat in France.
I agree its a city / country thing. In a city you're considered integrated if you avoid trouble and don't attract too much negative attention and keep your opinions to yourself. Out in the sticks even born and bred Swiss people who boycott the carneval and the Stammtisch and refuse to greet neighbours are looked on with suspicion. I think this is one of the reasons why so many second generation immigrants are so active in the local Vereine in the small villages.
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  #166  
Old 27.06.2014, 10:48
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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they asked me questions such as if I attended the local fetes, do I have friends, am I part of local groups/clubs, list of Swiss references, etc.
Sounds like I could be Swiss: I go to local sex parties, we exchange a lot of friends, I am a member of all Basler porn video clubs and I keep a record list of people I shag with who will give excellent reference.
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  #167  
Old 27.06.2014, 10:50
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Sounds like I could be Swiss: I go to local sex parties, we exchange a lot of friends, I am a member of all Basler porn video clubs and I keep a record list of people I shag with who will give excellent reference.
But but..do you say hello to neighbors? Those who can vote on your red book, I mean. Your accent passable?
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  #168  
Old 27.06.2014, 10:58
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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But but..do you say hello to neighbors? Those who can vote kn your red book, I mean.
Don't get me started on that. The only neighbours who never ever even looked at me even when meeting in the hall way were two overthetop Swiss ladies. The one didn't like that I asked if it was allowed to park bikes in the entrance (it was her bike). The other one got pissed when she noticed that I was correcting her German by rephrasing her words in my answers. That's what the Swiss do too, so I am definitely far too good a Swiss to even consider becoming one.
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  #169  
Old 27.06.2014, 11:06
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Nor is my Swiss husband . But I am, being a foreigner, and finding its sort of expected of me ..... support the ladies club, bake cakes, serve coffee, say Gruetzi to everyone. Maybe one day I may need to have impressed the locals that I did try to fit in. Its called attempting to integrate into the society I live in.
what a weird definition of integration.
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  #170  
Old 27.06.2014, 11:24
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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what a weird definition of integration.
I have a friend who hates coffee and cannot bake to save her life. I have informed her not to move here.
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  #171  
Old 27.06.2014, 11:44
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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what a weird definition of integration.
But that's the way a lot of the locals see it.

In these things, if you want to get accepted, it's the locals' view of intergration and not your own that matters.

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I have a friend who hates coffee and cannot bake to save her life. I have informed her not to move here.
Probably wise, especially if she has kids. Four cakes for one child's birthday in order to satisfy the demands of Kindergarten, Hort, their party, etc etc...
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  #172  
Old 27.06.2014, 12:01
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

Proving integration is a catch-22 in our village. One is expected to join local Vereine to demonstrate community involvement, but just try: village social life is a closed circle, Ausländer most definitely unerwünscht in most local clubs.

Ironically, in the village few Swiss under 65 are into the whole 'Vereinsleben' culture, but membership is a usefully high hurdle, one that catches applicants out.

Maybe somebody should start a 'Padding Out The CV With An Eye Towards Naturalization Verein'....

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  #173  
Old 27.06.2014, 12:04
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

I am lucky that I am an EU passport holder and I don't need a CH passport but if I had to kiss ass by baking a f@#°*ing cake to get a CH passport then NO WAY!
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  #174  
Old 27.06.2014, 12:05
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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One is expected to join local Vereine to demonstrate community involvement, but just try: village social life is a closed circle, Ausländer most definitely unerwünscht in most local clubs.
There is a hint in said community's thinking pattern.
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Old 27.06.2014, 12:16
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Proving integration is a catch-22 in our village. One is expected to join local Vereine to demonstrate community involvement, but just try: village social life is a closed circle, Ausländer most definitely unerwünscht in most local clubs.

Ironically, in the village few Swiss under 65 are into the whole 'Vereinsleben' culture, but membership is a usefully high hurdle, one that catches applicants out.

Maybe somebody should start a 'Padding Out The CV With An Eye Towards Naturalization Verein'....

I guess villages are the same across the world.

Try integrating into an English country village. Even coming from the next county it may take you 40 years or more to get accepted.
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  #176  
Old 27.06.2014, 12:19
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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Proving integration is a catch-22 in our village. One is expected to join local Vereine to demonstrate community involvement, but just try: village social life is a closed circle, Ausländer most definitely unerwünscht in most local clubs.

Ironically, in the village few Swiss under 65 are into the whole 'Vereinsleben' culture, but membership is a usefully high hurdle, one that catches applicants out.

Maybe somebody should start a 'Padding Out The CV With An Eye Towards Naturalization Verein'....

I agree with that. I try, but know I`m not totally "accepted" - why? .. because I just do not understand the high-speed-swiss-german-speak!

But. Not being a "coffee-morning" person - I "belong" to Vereins by paying my yearly subscriptions. Husband does the same but does not take active part anymore. By "belonging" we help to swell their club membership lists (& bank balance). They know they can call on us to do some support work if they need extra hands.

We show our faces at events - go to watch/eat/drink/dance/whatever, IF we have the time.

I find it pleasant and pleasing to be recognised and greeted when I go shop in village, and sometimes people actually stop and TALK to me

I even find it pleasing (in a weird way) when someone will confide to me what my grandchildren are getting up to when I`m not around - they have the "it takes a village to bring up a child" mentality.
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Old 27.06.2014, 12:23
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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I am lucky that I am an EU passport holder and I don't need a CH passport but if I had to kiss ass by baking a f@#°*ing cake to get a CH passport then NO WAY!
You really have a thing about baking cakes, don`t you? (Do perhaps enjoy to eat cakes baked by someone else?)

I would say Switzerland must also be very happy that you are not requiring a CH passport.

Now why not try the Shooting Verein? Or the Bird-Watching Verein? Or Save-the-Frogs Verein? Oh I forgot, that`s a form of ass-kissing innit? But you may also enjoy it. The Vereins I mean.
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  #178  
Old 27.06.2014, 12:34
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

A couple more points I missed replying to yesterday - The lady in question is talking about consulting a lawyer now about getting the Swiss passport?

She only works 50% and lives on Social Services financial help.

She has enough money to go out and consult lawyers about this?

Gemeindes do have access to lawyers for helping their S/S recipients, but is it likely the Gemeinde that is turning her down is going to recommend this service to her?

Another point: Her children are accepted. The Swiss do not lightly break up families, especially by sending the mother away ...... So her living in Switzerland is assured, so she does not actually NEED that passport?

Most likely scenario is when her children have grown up and are working, they will then be responsible for her financial stability, instead of the locals` tax money?

By making her a citizen of CH, the Gemeinde then takes on responsibility of providing her old age care. Has she contributed to this in any way? Has she made pension contributions?

Lots of unanswered questions behind the press hype.
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  #179  
Old 27.06.2014, 15:55
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

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I guess villages are the same across the world.

Try integrating into an English country village. Even coming from the next county it may take you 40 years or more to get accepted.
I quoted about six people. But in the end this is what I was going to say as well. This women lives in a tiny village. The same thing happens in small villages all over the world. If you don't participate they get their panties in a twist. Even locals who don't get involved are looked on with suspicion in small villages.

The difference of course is that the locals don't get to vote if you can be a citizen or not. I really thought they had abolished that a few years ago. Clearly I was wrong.
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  #180  
Old 27.06.2014, 16:00
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Re: Aisha Mohammed was refused 4 times swiss citizenship!

they abolished the secret vote a few years ago, now you know who voted no for you
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