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  #201  
Old 01.09.2015, 21:35
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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True, but what it only did was give them separate quota numbers from the general quotas they were already under didn't it? And until Switzerland changes the result of the vote there's no possibility of them being granted full free movement.

Even Merkel's admitting that Schengen may have to be dropped.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-suggests.html

So where would that leave the Free Movement
But there is no link between Schengen and the Free Movement Agreement. They are totally different agreements.
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  #202  
Old 01.09.2015, 21:37
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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And once again, Schengen and FMA are not remotely close to being the same thing... If the members ever agree to changes in the FMA it will come at a great cost for some countries as the contributions to the structural funds will have to be increased dramatically in order for the eastern countries to sign up.
I disagree. Schengen was/is fundamental to getting the FMA really moving towards its ultimate goal.

"Freedom of movement and residence for persons in the EU is the cornerstone of Union citizenship, which was established by the Treaty of Maastricht in 1992. Its practical implementation in EU law, however, has not been straightforward. It first involved the gradual phasing out, of internal borders under the Schengen agreements, initially in just a handful of Member States."

"The Schengen area
The key milestone in establishing an internal market with free movement of persons was the conclusion of the two Schengen agreements, i.e. the Agreement proper of 14 June 1985, and the Convention implementing the Schengen Agreement, which was signed on 19 June 1990 and entered into force on 26 March 1995."

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyour...FTU_2.1.3.html

The two are intertwined, though the Free Movement Agreeement would probably continue now without Schengen. Given that people are now used to moving between countries, it would be no more than an inconvenience having to show passports all the time when crossing borders. Whether the EU itself will hold up under the current strains is another question. With the migrant crisis, I think Theresa May's idea of a return to the first provisions of the Free Movement Agreement would be a good thing.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34100643
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  #203  
Old 01.09.2015, 21:48
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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But there is no link between Schengen and the Free Movement Agreement. They are totally different agreements.
IMO they are very closely related.
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  #204  
Old 01.09.2015, 21:52
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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True, but what it only did was give them separate quota numbers from the general quotas they were already under didn't it? And until Switzerland changes the result of the vote there's no possibility of them being granted full free movement.

Even Merkel's admitting that Schengen may have to be dropped.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-suggests.html

So where would that leave the Free Movement Agreement?
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IMO they are very closely related.
You mean like UK that is in FMA but not Schengen; distant relatives?
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  #205  
Old 01.09.2015, 22:58
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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IMO they are very closely related.
How comes? What about UK?
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  #206  
Old 01.09.2015, 23:16
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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How comes? What about UK?
I didn't say they are the same thing, but they are part of the free movement of people.
There are four "pillars".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_market
The European Union's (EU) internal market, also known as the EU Single Market, is a single market that seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and people.
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  #207  
Old 02.09.2015, 00:03
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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I didn't say they are the same thing, but they are part of the free movement of people.
There are four "pillars".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_market
The European Union's (EU) internal market, also known as the EU Single Market, is a single market that seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and people.

No, you wrote they are "very closely related".
They are different legal agreements; no relation!
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  #208  
Old 02.09.2015, 00:20
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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No, you wrote they are "very closely related".
They are different legal agreements; no relation!
Let him; he's one of those Greeks who believe they're something better than those Rumanians, Bulgarians and Croatians...



The IMF negotiator for Greece is a Rumanian lady! (I can understand all the groans because of it, but not the arrogance re. E.U.-2 plus Croatia)



http://www.theguardian.com/business/...tiation-athens

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  #209  
Old 02.09.2015, 00:55
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Let him; he's one of those Greeks who believe they're something better than those Rumanians, Bulgarians and Croatians...



The IMF negotiator for Greece is a Rumanian lady! (I can understand all the groans because of it, but not the arrogance re. E.U.-2 plus Croatia)



http://www.theguardian.com/business/...tiation-athens
Can you please read your post again tomorrow morning and fix it so that it makes sense?
I don't understand what you are saying, I don't remember ever groaning at you and I don't believe that any person is better than any other person by virtue of nationality.
I am sorry if some Greek ever told you something mean about your nationality, but I am not that Greek and I don't believe in collective responsibility.

Please take it back or show me where I said something mean about Bulgarians, Romanians, and Croatians (and especially I'd like to see where I said that I consider Greeks better).

The only reason I am not taking offense is the fact that I feel sorry for you and what you must have been through since you emigrated to Switzerland, so I give you a few hours to take back the nonsense and apologise.


PS. It is really sad that you take satisfaction by the fact that a Romanian woman is the current IMF official responsible for Greece. It's as as if you believe that this makes you suddenly a better person.
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  #210  
Old 02.09.2015, 00:59
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Can you please read your post again tomorrow morning and fix it so that it makes sense?
I don't understand what you are saying, I don't remember ever groaning at you and I don't believe that any person is better than any other person by virtue of nationality.
I am sorry if some Greek ever told you something mean about your nationality, but I am not that Greek.

Please take it back or show me where I said something mean about Bulgarians, Romanias, and Croatians (and especially I'd like to see where I said that I consider Greeks better).

The only reason I am not taking offense is the fact that I feel sorry for you and what you must have been through since you emigrated to Switzerland, so I give you a few hours to take back the nonsense and apologise.


You're sooo wrong, mate. Really.
I feel sorry for you actually.... and I know Troublawesome who groaned at me is Greek. You're arrogant too, but never mind.

Don't let the ENGLISH FORUM drama influence your judgement abilities...it is a forum for goodness' sake and you should expect some reactions to your posts.
And I feel no satisfaction about IMF lady; I only tried to justify some reactions. I see now I was right...
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  #211  
Old 02.09.2015, 01:05
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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You're sooo wrong, mate. Really.
I feel sorry for you actually.... and I know Troublawesome who groaned at me is Greek. You're arrogant too, but never mind.
So you are grouping people together based on their nationality and draw conclusions about them?
I really feel sorry for you. I don't understand what you are trying to do with these posts but it is sad.
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  #212  
Old 02.09.2015, 01:10
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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You mean like UK that is in FMA but not Schengen; distant relatives?
Let me remind you that I was the first one in this thread to insist on using the correct terminology and not mixing them up, in this post.
So I am well aware of what each one is about and I am aware of the fact that the UK has chosen not to participate in Schengen.
Still, they are closely related legal frameworks because they define the rights of the people to go to another country.
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  #213  
Old 02.09.2015, 01:11
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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So you are grouping people together based on their nationality and draw conclusions about them?
I really feel sorry for you. I don't understand what you are trying to do with these posts but it is sad.
And what are you trying to do with all of your posts then?

I feel sorry for you too!
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  #214  
Old 02.09.2015, 01:21
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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And what are you trying to do with all of your posts then?
Excuse me?
Are you aware of the fact that you have actually given me thanks for my contribution in this specific thread?
See for yourself.


You found my post useful enough to thank me for clarifying the two terms that some people were mixing up (Schengen and Freedom of Movement for Workers). And a few post laters you started this attack on me, because you realized that I am Greek and remembered that some other Greek told you something mean once, and because all Greeks are the same (like all Romanians are the same I guess) you said about me that: "he's one of those Greeks who believe they're something better than those Rumanians, Bulgarians and Croatians".

I expect you to show me where I said that.

Until then I have nothing more to say. Scripta manent.
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  #215  
Old 02.09.2015, 01:23
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Excuse me?
Are you aware of the fact that you have actually given me thanks for my contribution in this specific thread?
See for yourself.


You found my post useful enough to thank me for clarifying the two terms that some people were mixing up (Schengen and Freedom of Movement for Workers). And a few post laters you started this attack on me, because you realized that I am Greek and remembered that some other Greek told you something mean once, and because all Greeks are the same (like all Romanians are the same I guess) you said about me that: "he's one of those Greeks who believe they're something better than those Rumanians, Bulgarians and Croatians".

I expect you to show me where I said that.

Until then I have nothing more to say. Scripta manent.
Verba volant.
Anyway, for me is somehow conclusive you thought I'm posting here because I'm somehow frustrated. (because of my nationality)
Let me assure you I never really experienced the famous Swiss racism/xenophobia. In fact....on the contrary.
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  #216  
Old 02.09.2015, 08:22
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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IMO they are very closely related.
The EU has no intention of giving up Free movement, while some countries want to impose checks border checks going beyond what Schengen allows. No country faces expulsion from the EU as a result of wanting to impose border controls.

Switzerland wants out of free movement, while at this time not making any noises about Schengen, and is faced with cancellation of the bilaterals.

So they are not that closely related. Free movement is considered a fundamental pillar of the EU, and Schengen is only meant to ease the bureaucracy of cross border trade and tourism.

If Schengen goes away, EU citizens can still live and work freely anywhere in the EU. They will just have to show their IDs at the borders.
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  #217  
Old 02.09.2015, 10:28
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Let me remind you that I was the first one in this thread to insist on using the correct terminology and not mixing them up, in this post.
So I am well aware of what each one is about and I am aware of the fact that the UK has chosen not to participate in Schengen.
Still, they are closely related legal frameworks because they define the rights of the people to go to another country.


About "they define the rights of the people to go to another country"
No,
  • one define the rights of the people to cross the border to another country
  • the other defines the rights of the people to live and work in another country
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Old 02.09.2015, 13:17
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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IMO they are very closely related.
Not even close! Schengen makes it convenient to move freely around the EU for purposes such as tourism, short business trips and so on. The second is one of the fundamental building blocks of the single market: free movement of capital, labour, goods etc... which is why the EU keeps saying it is not on the table. You want access to the market it is a total package.
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  #219  
Old 02.09.2015, 22:20
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Not even close! Schengen makes it convenient to move freely around the EU for purposes such as tourism, short business trips and so on. The second is one of the fundamental building blocks of the single market: free movement of capital, labour, goods etc... which is why the EU keeps saying it is not on the table. You want access to the market it is a total package.
I just can't see Schengen permanently abolished and passport controls becoming the norm again, that's all.
Temporary measures can be accepted if this is how politicians think they can secure their reelection.

With respect to the access of Bulgarians, Romanians and Croatians to the Swiss job market, the EU has to stand firm and activate the guillotine close if the Swiss side decides to jeopardise everything.
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  #220  
Old 03.09.2015, 08:43
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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I just can't see Schengen permanently abolished and passport controls becoming the norm again, that's all.
Temporary measures can be accepted if this is how politicians think they can secure their reelection.

With respect to the access of Bulgarians, Romanians and Croatians to the Swiss job market, the EU has to stand firm and activate the guillotine close if the Swiss side decides to jeopardise everything.
The EU should have respected its own legislation before asking others to respect the agreements they have signed; in re. with access of E.U.-2 (and Croatia) this is a little too little and little too late. 90% of immigrants from these countries emigrated (to countries like Italy, Spain which are not really known by any generous welfare system re.immigrants, btw) before their countries joined the E.U., so the relatively few people who'll come to CH, will come here anyway - with the non-EU legislation. (like before, like today)
Just so you know.

Last edited by greenmount; 03.09.2015 at 08:59.
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