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  #101  
Old 26.07.2014, 18:02
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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I don't think a free trade agreement is what anyone is aiming for, but if the Swiss don't want to accept freedom of movement for EU citizens any more it seems like the only viable solution. Only because one is negotiating does not mean one has to accept all of the other party's requests. Just because you are asking the shop assistant for the price does not mean you have to buy the good, does it?
Well it may very well come to that, but I would imagine the EU will want an iron clad agreement this time round, no changing our minds later.
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  #102  
Old 26.07.2014, 18:09
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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In case anyone missed it: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

The most troubling line in the article I think is:



It does not seem like we have any friends in there! I guess there is now a very real possibility that the bilateral agreement will be broken in the near future.
does anyone have details on this. are there minutes of the decision? what is the process for this decision making - it sounds like a vote wasn't required.
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  #103  
Old 26.07.2014, 18:50
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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does anyone have details on this. are there minutes of the decision? what is the process for this decision making - it sounds like a vote wasn't required.
I think it is a bit too early for anything to be published, but normally the council likes to work by consensus so a vote is not usual needed unless one or more of the 28 disagree with the recommendation, in this case proposed by Lady Ashton I expect. The lack of a press release suggests that the issue did not even warrant a discussion let alone a vote.
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  #104  
Old 26.07.2014, 19:39
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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What an utter nonsene!

Well, besides that 4% is nothing to be neglected, the EU exports 10% (or € 170 billion) of its exports to Switzerland what makes Switzerland the second most important – right after the USA – purchaser of the EU!

On the other side, the EU imports only 5.6% (or €94 billion) of its imports from Switzerland, still the EU's forth most important provider. (all figures from 2013).

In general, Switzerland is EU's forth most important business parter. I would that hardly call unimportant.

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/doc...doc_113450.pdf

Besides, the EU has rather other problems, not just on the periphery, such as the heavy negative balance of trade by UK: £2.42 billion in May 2014! About 4.4% of its GDP. And that's definitely called problematic ... besides 4% being unimportant!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...forecasts.html

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unit...lance-of-trade


That 5.6% of EU's imports is translated to about 50% of CH's exports.

One is the 4th most important partner and the other one is by far THE most important partner.

Relative values and expected effects matter in a negotiation. CH has far less power in their hands than the EU has, that's all people are saying here
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  #105  
Old 26.07.2014, 21:02
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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That 5.6% of EU's imports is translated to about 50% of CH's exports.

One is the 4th most important partner and the other one is by far THE most important partner.

Relative values and expected effects matter in a negotiation. CH has far less power in their hands than the EU has, that's all people are saying here
The thing is that the EU rearly makes decisions purely on economic terms, otherwise some of the 28 would not have been allowed to join. And when it comes to an agreement anyone of the 28 can veto it as majority voting does not apply to such decisions - our recent treatment of certain new member states when comes to work permits might come back to trouble us on that count.
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  #106  
Old 27.07.2014, 23:51
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Well it may very well come to that, but I would imagine the EU will want an iron clad agreement this time round, no changing our minds later.
Financial penalty clauses are what's required. If the Swiss change their minds later in a referendum, let them pay the price
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  #107  
Old 28.07.2014, 00:58
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Financial penalty clauses are what's required. If the Swiss change their minds later in a referendum, let them pay the price
Cancellation of the bilaterals is a pretty high financial penalty, but that didnt stop the vote this time.

More disclosure in the referendum process could be better suited to prevent such flip flops in the future. Many, atleast 0.3 %, voted yes thinking there would be no penalties.
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  #108  
Old 28.07.2014, 01:22
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Cancellation of the bilaterals is a pretty high financial penalty, but that didnt stop the vote this time.

More disclosure in the referendum process could be better suited to prevent such flip flops in the future. Many, atleast 0.3 %, voted yes thinking there would be no penalties.
If you mean better quality public political discourse, I whole heartedly agree. Direct democracy makes sense where people want to get educated on the consequences of their votes.

Last edited by MusicChick; 28.07.2014 at 01:38.
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  #109  
Old 28.07.2014, 08:34
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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If you mean better quality public political discourse, I whole heartedly agree. Direct democracy makes sense where people want to get educated on the consequences of their votes.
And are not brainwashed by SVP political propaganda
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  #110  
Old 28.07.2014, 23:31
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

Actually the federal council, political groups, the scientific community, trade etc.. warned about negative consequences but a majority of the population (not only SVP) didn't care....
If the EU-sanctions were known before the vote, I wonder if the result would have been much different - or maybe a short majority of "no" ?
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  #111  
Old 28.07.2014, 23:58
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Actually the federal council, political groups, the scientific community, trade etc.. warned about negative consequences but a majority of the population (not only SVP) didn't care....
If the EU-sanctions were known before the vote, I wonder if the result would have been much different - or maybe a short majority of "no" ?


Actually, the federal council told the people that a maximum of 10'000 people would come in per year:



http://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schwei...jahr-127434927



Either that was a lie or a gross miscalculation. In any case: if the number communicated before the vote on the bilateral treaties had been anywhere near reality, nobody in his or her right mind would have voted in favor of them.
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  #112  
Old 29.07.2014, 00:30
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Actually, the federal council told the people that a maximum of 10'000 people would come in per year:



http://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schwei...jahr-127434927



Either that was a lie or a gross miscalculation. In any case: if the number communicated before the vote on the bilateral treaties had been anywhere near reality, nobody in his or her right mind would have voted in favor of them.
With associated economic stability and growth.

Good luck with the lack of doctors then, that nice guy form UDC was talking about using doctors that are already in retirement age.

I wounder when he will propose to use zombies...
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  #113  
Old 29.07.2014, 01:00
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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With associated economic stability and growth.

Good luck with the lack of doctors then, that nice guy form UDC was talking about using doctors that are already in retirement age.

I wounder when he will propose to use zombies...
Well as long as they have a pulse
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  #114  
Old 29.07.2014, 08:50
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

CH could always try training more of it's own doctors. Plenty of students apply to study medicine.
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Old 29.07.2014, 08:53
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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CH could always try training more of it's own doctors. Plenty of students apply to study medicine.
It's cheaper to just hire foreign work - training doctors is very expensive. In my opinion, this is one of the worst consequences of mass immigration: Switzerland has stopped investing in education. Training highly qualified workers has always been one of Switzerland's strengths. Now a lot of politicians think the money can be invested elsewhere.
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  #116  
Old 29.07.2014, 09:24
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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It's cheaper to just hire foreign work - training doctors is very expensive. In my opinion, this is one of the worst consequences of mass immigration: Switzerland has stopped investing in education. Training highly qualified workers has always been one of Switzerland's strengths. Now a lot of politicians think the money can be invested elsewhere.

What the heck are you talking about: it is one of the states that spend most of the GDP in education If there is something people should never complain about in Switzerland is how much it is cheap to go to a university or access to education.
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  #117  
Old 29.07.2014, 09:42
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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What the heck are you talking about: it is one of the states that spend most of the GDP in education If there is something people should never complain about in Switzerland is how much it is cheap to go to a university or access to education.

Yet it still shocks me how few choose that route (in comparison to the exact opposite back home). Obviously both extremes are not ideal, but I feel there is little motivation for higher learning in Switzerland when jobs not requiring university pay so well. The is very little motivation to spend all those years studying.
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  #118  
Old 29.07.2014, 09:44
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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What the heck are you talking about: it is one of the states that spend most of the GDP in education If there is something people should never complain about in Switzerland is how much it is cheap to go to a university or access to education.
you clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. It may be cheap for EU students to study here, because Switzerland pays for their entire education (minus 800 Fr. per semester), but it's certainly not cheap for people paying taxes here.

Also, I happen to work in the education sector and cuts to the education funds have been rather dramatic over the last few years. Thurgau has just started to close schools, fire teachers and increase the class sizes. The same goes for Aargau and Baselland (I have friends and colleagues there who just lost their jobs).
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  #119  
Old 29.07.2014, 10:01
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

Why not simply put quotas on EU workers coming to work as waiters, hairdressers and so on, without quotas for specialist-type EU workers?
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  #120  
Old 29.07.2014, 10:06
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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It's cheaper to just hire foreign work - training doctors is very expensive. In my opinion, this is one of the worst consequences of mass immigration: Switzerland has stopped investing in education.
Or the other way around. Mass immigration was a consequence of weak investments in local education making the population fall behind in competitiveness or motivation. Why stress the community, la vie est belle because it is not our fault. It is the new comers fault.

Allowing hate speach and xenophobic, straight out racist, scandalising campaigns, quotas and border mobility limits will not compensate for edu investments that are missing, or, are present but not quality controlled, investments not chased after and people not made accountable for results. Nor is blaming EU for reaction that was not only logical but legally necessary. Scape goat seems to be popular. Society needs to be educated in order to not want it and to see the consequences of their own votes.
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