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  #121  
Old 29.07.2014, 10:16
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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What the heck are you talking about: it is one of the states that spend most of the GDP in education If there is something people should never complain about in Switzerland is how much it is cheap to go to a university or access to education.
The cash spent in edu does not mean it is spent well, maybe it only means things are expensive here, schools, books, etc. just like anything that is being done in CH. Who goes after these investments..is motivation of kids and teachers to deliver a quality edu really proportional to the claims of edu investments?

Poor political climate always gets blamed on poor education, I actually think edu is the only way to improve it, together with regulating actively maneuvres that lead to fear spreading (racism, xenophobia, etc.). Just like bulling and mobbing should be actively stepped on and fast.
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  #122  
Old 29.07.2014, 10:18
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Why not simply put quotas on EU workers coming to work as waiters, hairdressers and so on, without quotas for specialist-type EU workers?
The EU won't accept any kind of quota system. However, as the vote has passed, what you're proposing up there might very well happen now.
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  #123  
Old 29.07.2014, 10:20
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Mass immigration was a consequence of weak investments in local education making the population fall behind in competitiveness or motivation.
I think that given that so many foreign companies which require specialist skills haven chose to locate here (in large part due to tax incentives), it is just impossible for local schools to produce all the talent required.

In Zug, I can't believe that enough financial specialists could be trained locally.

Could Basel train enough of it's own pharma people?

Geneva has relatively high unemployment but most of the jobless there don't have the skills (such as private banking expertise or science) that the local market requires.
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  #124  
Old 29.07.2014, 10:47
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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you clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. It may be cheap for EU students to study here, because Switzerland pays for their entire education (minus 800 Fr. per semester), but it's certainly not cheap for people paying taxes here.

Also, I happen to work in the education sector and cuts to the education funds have been rather dramatic over the last few years. Thurgau has just started to close schools, fire teachers and increase the class sizes. The same goes for Aargau and Baselland (I have friends and colleagues there who just lost their jobs).

I work in the university system since 2006.

In Italy education costs more, in UK it costs more more. The amount of money Switzerland spends in education is good and healthy.

I pay taxes here, I find education cheap, I would find it cheap even if I earned half of what I earn, if compared with the places I have been before.

Also, the moment in which you make education closed for just the Swiss people, you kill the very fundament of education and its quality will be crap.
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  #125  
Old 29.07.2014, 11:00
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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I think it is a bit too early for anything to be published, but normally the council likes to work by consensus so a vote is not usual needed unless one or more of the 28 disagree with the recommendation, in this case proposed by Lady Ashton I expect. The lack of a press release suggests that the issue did not even warrant a discussion let alone a vote.
i was curious since if the UK were also considering possible quotas in the future, they might have indicated something at this point.
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  #126  
Old 29.07.2014, 11:05
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

Guys,

Can someone finally say what is the final decision regarding EU people who wanna get job in CH? I read some where that their new rule comes in to effect from 2017 onwards. So does this mean even if Swiss guys pass this law (or have already passed) still EU people can get job and enter CH in coming 2 years before 2017 without any restrications?
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  #127  
Old 29.07.2014, 11:08
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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And are not brainwashed by SVP political propaganda
Well you say that, but democracy is all about the people. If the people are dumb enough to get brainwashed, then OK. They'll get what they said they want, and it's exactly what they deserve.

Right and wrong are very relative terms and I think they are defined by the majority of people. So if the Swiss collectively agree that they want A with consequences B, C, D (some positive, some negative), even if by a lot of standards the negatives trump the positives, the Swiss took the right decision, because right is a matter of popular opinion and majority.

Having grown up in a corrupt state like Greece, were the people are voting with their heads up their asses, and then they are complaining about being tricked after voting for exactly the same people for 30-odd years, I finally realised that there shouldn't be groaning. You vote for something, you actively participated in decision shaping/taking, shut your piehole and move on. If you're not educated enough to understand brainwashing propaganda or to take into account more variables than basic instincts, tough luck...
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  #128  
Old 29.07.2014, 11:29
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Guys,

Can someone finally say what is the final decision regarding EU people who wanna get job in CH? I read some where that their new rule comes in to effect from 2017 onwards. So does this mean even if Swiss guys pass this law (or have already passed) still EU people can get job and enter CH in coming 2 years before 2017 without any restrications?
That's right, you have 2 years to get here before it becomes more difficult.
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  #129  
Old 29.07.2014, 11:31
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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I think that given that so many foreign companies which require specialist skills haven chose to locate here (in large part due to tax incentives), it is just impossible for local schools to produce all the talent required.

In Zug, I can't believe that enough financial specialists could be trained locally.

Could Basel train enough of it's own pharma people?

Geneva has relatively high unemployment but most of the jobless there don't have the skills (such as private banking expertise or science) that the local market requires.
I think these people could all be trained locally if they had to be. But it's sometimes just easier to recruit them from outside. Many of the big companies headquartered in Switzerland are foreign companies that relocated here when they were already big. Thus top management was foreign and they brought in many of their own people and maybe prefer to continue to do so for language and cultural reasons and because their main markets are outside Switzerland.
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  #130  
Old 29.07.2014, 11:35
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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tough luck...
Except the tough luck affects their kids and chance to compete more than them. For the voters la vie is still belle, because their media played patriotic ego got pleased. This kind of manipulation leaves the system self regulatory, investments not needed, employers not wanting to employ those bad foreigners even without being pushed that way, kids do not need to study, or even go study abroad, oh no. Yay.

Like restrictive myopic ways have ever worked, anywhere, in favor of the local population.
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  #131  
Old 29.07.2014, 11:37
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Guys,

Can someone finally say what is the final decision regarding EU people who wanna get job in CH? I read some where that their new rule comes in to effect from 2017 onwards. So does this mean even if Swiss guys pass this law (or have already passed) still EU people can get job and enter CH in coming 2 years before 2017 without any restrications?
The quotas will be introduced in 2017, however, the Ecopop initiative, that'll be voted on in November, would limit immigration even more. If you want to get it, I'd do that immediately. Not sure why you'd want to come here, though - why not go to Germany instead? The climate towards foreigners isn't the best and economic outlooks for foreigners have never been worse than now.
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  #132  
Old 29.07.2014, 12:21
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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The quotas will be introduced in 2017, however, the Ecopop initiative, that'll be voted on in November, would limit immigration even more. If you want to get it, I'd do that immediately. Not sure why you'd want to come here, though - why not go to Germany instead? The climate towards foreigners isn't the best and economic outlooks for foreigners have never been worse than now.
The chances that ecopop is going anywhere are very slim. It's typical of the sort of thing you get when the extreme left and extreme right put their heads together and look for common ground. Methinks even the initiators are seeing this more as an opportunity for debate than as something they can win.
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  #133  
Old 29.07.2014, 12:25
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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The chances that ecopop is going anywhere are very slim.
Yeah, we've heard that one before.
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  #134  
Old 29.07.2014, 12:33
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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The EU won't accept any kind of quota system. However, as the vote has passed, what you're proposing up there might very well happen now.
I'm curious also about frontalier permits, whether and by how much they may be curbed. Seems to be a sore point in certain border zones.
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  #135  
Old 29.07.2014, 12:36
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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I'm curious also about frontalier permits, whether and by how much they may be curbed. Seems to be a sore point in certain border zones.
I thought they are not affected at all?
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  #136  
Old 29.07.2014, 12:37
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Yeah, we've heard that one before.
I don't know if you've checked out their website but it's basically crazy rightist messaging masquerading in revolutionary leftist language. Methinks it will convince neither side. Much of it is plain looney. Protecting farmland by distributing free condoms? Reducing immigration by building abortion clinics in Africa. I had to check that the date wasn't 1st April. I'm expecting the biggest impact to be felt on the speeches of next year's Fasnacht.

Come on, even SVP are saying its crazy.
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  #137  
Old 29.07.2014, 13:51
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Reducing immigration by building abortion clinics in Africa.
Africa's population is growing very rapidly, perhaps unsustainably so. Reduced population growth in Africa is a laudable aim.

Ecopop also say "ECOPOP distanziert sich klar von fremdenfeindlichen und rassistischen Ansichten." - clearly it's not a right wing organisation.
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  #138  
Old 29.07.2014, 14:05
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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CH could always try training more of it's own doctors. Plenty of students apply to study medicine.
Really? where did you get that info from?
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  #139  
Old 29.07.2014, 14:08
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

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Really? where did you get that info from?
read this

http://www.amge.ch/2010/10/04/le-tes...peu-dissuasif/

or

http://www.tdg.ch/suisse/Le-manque-d...story/21784772
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  #140  
Old 29.07.2014, 14:23
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Re: EU rejects renegotiation of free movement

Thanks - 3,270 people applying for 713 places. But I did not see where it was written that all the applicants are Swiss? My French is not so good so maybe I missed that point?

Problems here is that many doctors are approaching or already reached retirement age.
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