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  #221  
Old 15.10.2014, 18:56
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Yes of course it's the red necked SVP. Thats obvious
there's nothing rednecked about it, a native Swiss who moved to Detroit, Michigan and then learned only the Queen's English would get the same treatment. it is part of the reason that learning American English without accent is so important to many of the young Swiss people I know, despite my constantly telling them that a dude with a Swiss accent in the US gets a lot more attention at the pub than just another dude who speaks English.
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  #222  
Old 15.10.2014, 18:58
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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I suspect that this runs on several levels much deeper than simply not liking foreigners.
It's hard to draw the line. Dialect is the way they reject Germany. The only Swiss Germans I know who speak High German only to me identify with the broader picture of German culture, like Mozart said of himself he was a German composer and not a Salzburger. Needless to say none of them are from Einsiedeln.

Dialect is a portable border. I pay the price everyday. I am mostly OK with it because I don't even want to be considered Swiss in any way, sometimes, I make them pay by answering in Low-German, other times, I just ignore people talking in dialect, yet other times, I don't even notice it's dialect. This rejection is the price for this man. Well, you all know what I did… Selling the house for a horrendous price to a local and moving to a protestant place with a better view to pay his taxes is in my eyes the best thing he can do. But he is a free man…


EDIT: By the way, the dialect in Lörrach is the same as in Basel. They don't make a big fuzz about it.
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  #223  
Old 15.10.2014, 19:11
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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at least in my professional and social circles in Switzerland, "integration" as an American in the eyes of others is not possible without dialect. yes, you are welcome to stay and learn standard German, but failure to evidence at least a willingness to learn dialect is viewed by many - albeit mostly quietly when you are around - as a rejection of the local community. I suspect that this runs on several levels much deeper than simply not liking foreigners.

I am sure that every native Swiss EF'er will tell me I am wrong, but this has been my experience.
Fortunately, it's different down here.

I know plenty of Ticinese who can't speak dialect, and even if they can they often speak Italian to others when they aren't sure that the other person can understand their dialect.

Dialect is never spoken at school here, so, unless you speak it at home, most people pick it up as adults.

My wife rarely speaks dialect, even though she knows that I understand it, as is the case with most of her Swiss and Italian relatives (her Italian relatives speak the same dialect as general Ticinese, i.e. Lombardian)

Regarding Swiss German, a former (Swiss German) girlfriend once told me "you don't speak Swiss German, you speak German with a Swiss accent).

Good enough for me!

Tom
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  #224  
Old 15.10.2014, 19:20
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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He obviously wasn't prepared to play the game, like the rest of us, and promise to vote SVP once citizenship is granted.
Actually, in general I'm not pro SVP (but pro LEGA).

Strangely, most Swiss women I've dated are pro SVP.

However, I am anti PS, so what's left?

Tom
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  #225  
Old 15.10.2014, 19:38
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Strangely, most Swiss women I've dated are pro SVP.
Yea, women are softer.
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  #226  
Old 15.10.2014, 19:38
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

So I guess everyone agrees that it was either subjective or arbitrary? Either is bad in my opinion. My wife got US citizenship and the decision was neither of those.
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  #227  
Old 15.10.2014, 19:51
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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He real problem?

When asked if he knows Kälin, has ever had a beer with Kälin, thinks Kälin is a nice chap, and if he was ever in any trouble with Kälin. He confused Kälin with Kälin, and totally though that Kälin was actually Kälin when in fact it was Kälin.
Is this the Kaelin you talk about ? Kaelin Tuell

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  #228  
Old 15.10.2014, 20:14
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Actually, in general I'm not pro SVP (but pro LEGA).

Strangely, most Swiss women I've dated are pro SVP.

However, I am anti PS, so what's left?

Tom
Totally against both Lega and SVP/UDC and yet not supporter or PS - there are 'centre' alternatives, you know
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  #229  
Old 15.10.2014, 20:16
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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however, i am anti ps, so what's left?

Tom
The MPS ?
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  #230  
Old 15.10.2014, 20:16
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Totally against both Lega and SVP/UDC and yet not supporter or PS - there are 'centre' alternatives, you know
I bet you were a Guardian reader in the UK, too.
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  #231  
Old 15.10.2014, 20:21
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

LOL, and ....??? I actually like to read a cross section, including Private Eye- but not generally waste my time or money on The Sun or the Daily Mirror which would probably be the UK choice for the UDC/SVP in the UK. But we digress, are we not?

Last edited by Odile; 15.10.2014 at 20:42.
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  #232  
Old 15.10.2014, 20:50
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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there's nothing rednecked about it, a native Swiss who moved to Detroit, Michigan and then learned only the Queen's English would get the same treatment. it is part of the reason that learning American English without accent is so important to many of the young Swiss people I know, despite my constantly telling them that a dude with a Swiss accent in the US gets a lot more attention at the pub than just another dude who speaks English.
Yeap ! and rightfully so
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  #233  
Old 15.10.2014, 21:13
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Totally against both Lega and SVP/UDC and yet not supporter or PS - there are 'centre' alternatives, you know
Still a bit too socialist for me.

Anyway, the LEGA isn't right wing, it's pro-Ticino.

Tom
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  #234  
Old 15.10.2014, 21:46
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Given the fact that I AGAIN got red blobs from Porsch for even saying something, I can pretty much perfectly explain what ARBITRARY is.

A red Porsche always shouts male menopause to me.
I had a friend married to a Swiss-born foreigner, lived all his life in Switzerland. They gave all their time to the community were an integral part of village life, on the handball team, dined regularly at the Stammtisch, SVP Burrezmoerge and at each other's houses, Cevi, turnverein, church and community and school leaders. Close friends with everyone in the Rathaus. About 20 years ago they applied for CH citizenship. They were close friends with everyone voting on the committee. Someone on the committee, one or more of their friends refused their application, they could never find out who ,CH stays only for Swiss. It tore a deep cut in their psyche, rocked their world, especially their friends carried on as if nothing had happened and it was acceptable. They re-applied and got it years later, but it was a bitter lesson. They stayed in the same circle, 30 years on they still don't know who or why.
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  #235  
Old 15.10.2014, 22:10
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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A red Porsche always shouts male menopause to me.
I had a friend married to a Swiss-born foreigner, lived all his life in Switzerland. They gave all their time to the community were an integral part of village life, on the handball team, dined regularly at the Stammtisch, SVP Burrezmoerge and at each other's houses, Cevi, turnverein, church and community and school leaders. Close friends with everyone in the Rathaus. About 20 years ago they applied for CH citizenship. They were close friends with everyone voting on the committee. Someone on the committee, one or more of their friends refused their application, they could never find out who ,CH stays only for Swiss. It tore a deep cut in their psyche, rocked their world, especially their friends carried on as if nothing had happened and it was acceptable. They re-applied and got it years later, but it was a bitter lesson. They stayed in the same circle, 30 years on they still don't know who or why.
on a much different level, I had more or less the exact same experience with a club I participated in. at first, I was angry. and then, once member after member started calling me to find out why I had stopped participating in the club, it saddened me because I realized that they were that way with one another and honestly did not get it. if not citizenship, then village, or canton, or region, or heritage, or grades in school, or job, etc.

kudos to your friend for sticking with it.
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  #236  
Old 15.10.2014, 23:11
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Re: Retired ETH professor: After 39 years not integrated enough for Swiss naturalisat

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Well, if arrogance precluded the issuance of a passport then I can't see how any Swiss passport are ever issued. But I agree, he should have jumped through the hoops asked of him as we all have to to get what we want.

ONE URGENT REQUEST Please stop to talk about PASSPORTS to be issued. Most Swiss citizens do not have a passport, but at best an identity card. New citizens do NOT get a passport and not even an identity card, but just a paper confirming that they have become citizens of their Canton.


If interested (most sure are) they can then ask for an identity card and if really interested, request with the identity card a passport


A majority of CH citizens has no passport
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  #237  
Old 15.10.2014, 23:22
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Re: These small minded people in Einsiedeln!

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He's from USA and has been here for 40 Years and worked at the ETH helping young Swiss. And now they deny him Swiss Citizenship. Is it because he's from USA? What do you Americans here think about this? I am sure they were all SVP who voted against him.

Wrong. He helped young people in Zürich. He was denied citizenship of the Canton of Schwyz because he is from Zürich
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  #238  
Old 15.10.2014, 23:24
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Re: These small minded people in Einsiedeln!

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Wrong. He helped young people in Zürich. He was denied citizenship of the Canton of Schwyz because he is from Zürich
Wrong. He has lived near Einsiedeln since 1975. He is not from Zürich.
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  #239  
Old 15.10.2014, 23:27
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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All those years ago he should have chosen the EPFL it seems.
If he was qualified enough that is.

If he was qualified enough for the ETH he was qualified enough for the Polytechnique. Had he taken residence in Richterswil/ZH or Wädenswil/ZH he now would be a citizen of the Canton of Zürich and so a Swiss national
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  #240  
Old 15.10.2014, 23:28
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Totally against both Lega and SVP/UDC and yet not supporter or PS - there are 'centre' alternatives, you know
No. Being centre and being alternative at the same time is sort of a tautology.
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