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  #261  
Old 16.10.2014, 02:25
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Re: Retired ETH professor: After 39 years not integrated enough for Swiss naturalisat

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As is the case with most Americans, Canadians, etc.

Tom
The majority of Canadians, around 70%, now have passports.
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  #262  
Old 16.10.2014, 05:06
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

We'll we don't know if he tried previously to get the passport?
Even after living 39 years here if you move to another a kanton do you have to start from zero for the 12 years before getting citizenship. If that is true would seem unfair. I guess he justs needs to reapply every year and meet the locals and eventually he gets it but at 75 how many more bites at the cherry. Maybe at that age there are other things to worry about but would seem logical to plan for when you eventually leave if having a passport has a bearing on this I cannot say.
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  #263  
Old 16.10.2014, 06:02
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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We'll we don't know if he tried previously to get the passport?
Even after living 39 years here if you move to another a kanton do you have to start from zero for the 12 years before getting citizenship. If that is true would seem unfair. I guess he justs needs to reapply every year and meet the locals and eventually he gets it but at 75 how many more bites at the cherry. Maybe at that age there are other things to worry about but would seem logical to plan for when you eventually leave if having a passport has a bearing on this I cannot say.

whatever, he combined negative attributes
> self confident, possibly a bit arrogant academic
> American
> working and defacto living in Zürich
> NOT Roman Catholic
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  #264  
Old 16.10.2014, 09:30
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

The "federal" 12 years does not get reset, however the Gemeinde / Canton one does.

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We'll we don't know if he tried previously to get the passport?
Even after living 39 years here if you move to another a kanton do you have to start from zero for the 12 years before getting citizenship. If that is true would seem unfair. I guess he justs needs to reapply every year and meet the locals and eventually he gets it but at 75 how many more bites at the cherry. Maybe at that age there are other things to worry about but would seem logical to plan for when you eventually leave if having a passport has a bearing on this I cannot say.
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  #265  
Old 16.10.2014, 09:31
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

A small willy.

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So what does my fleet of primered, unpainted, unwashed, Ducatis and Guzzis shout?

Tom
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  #266  
Old 16.10.2014, 09:38
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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whatever, he combined negative attributes
> self confident, possibly a bit arrogant academic
> American
> working and defacto living in Zürich
> NOT Roman Catholic
I was gonna say that this thread is about arrogant American which reminds me of another thread on EF about arrogant Swiss staff...
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  #267  
Old 16.10.2014, 10:44
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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What a lot of b*******, really.

To become a UK citizen I had to swear my allegiance to the Queen and all the heirs. Now that is prostrating yourself Not sure I would do that now.
When I was living in Germany I took a holiday job in the post office and had just to get that job - nothing to do with citizenship which i never pursued or wanted - I had to swear allegiance to the German Constitution.

I doubt that many Germans have ever read this document from beginning to end, or even care what it says. It's the hugest load of yawn bla bla yawn you can imagine.

I'd much rather have sworn allegiance to a little old German lady residing in Windsor. Being a priviledged expat myself, she is at least somebody I can relate to.
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  #268  
Old 16.10.2014, 10:59
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Re: Retired ETH professor: After 39 years not integrated enough for Swiss naturalisat

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ONE URGENT REQUEST Please stop to talk about PASSPORTS to be issued. Most Swiss citizens do not have a passport, but at best an identity card.
Thank you. Can you also pass this message to the BFS? I wanted to check your claim, but in most(all?) of their publication Pass==citizenship.

PS: How was the cake?
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  #269  
Old 16.10.2014, 11:05
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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The "federal" 12 years does not get reset, however the Gemeinde / Canton one does.

I believe it is now 10 years only.
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  #270  
Old 16.10.2014, 11:13
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

what are the requirements for Swiss Citizenship?

time requirement
language requirement
etc...????
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  #271  
Old 16.10.2014, 11:16
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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what are the requirements for Swiss Citizenship?

time requirement
language requirement
etc...????
https://www.ch.ch/en/regular-natural...-requirements/
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  #272  
Old 16.10.2014, 11:30
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

What does the Integration requirement refer to?
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  #273  
Old 16.10.2014, 11:44
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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What a lot of b*******, really.

To become a UK citizen I had to swear my allegiance to the Queen and all the heirs. Now that is prostrating yourself Not sure I would do that now.
But you didn't really mean it, did you?

Now where is that line about Middle Ages or something...oh, here

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Yes " medieval " is the right word for it! They probably thought to themselves " this smart ass Ami-who does he think he is. Lets show him a thing or two" !
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  #274  
Old 16.10.2014, 11:44
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

It's very vague- and there is no official list with tick boxes- and is also hugely open to local interpretation and the people on the Committee at that particular time. But it is about giving the impression overall, that you've got 'stuck in' to your community, in your own way- for some it might me through sport and clubs, for others through helping with local acitivities, etc, etc, etc. In a small town, people know people and talk to them- and will find out for sure if you are 'part of what's going on', or not. That can be discreet, or very obvious. There is for instance no point in joining the ski club and the Jass club- and never take part in any of the activities...

In this case, the guy was really living his everyday life, personal and professional, in Zurich, and not in Einsiedeln. And it was noticed. Each area has got its own set of criteria- just checked the one for Einsiedeln and it clearly states that a candidate needs to show good basic knowledge of local geography, history, civil and politics. This is one of the basic requirements, in black and white on the form- but he chose to ignore it. He wanted low taxes but Zurich life- and it didn't work. Now I'm quite happy to discuss whether this was right or wrong- but.... The fact they accepted several others from a variety of ethnic groups indicate this was not just 'Einsiedeln' racism.

Each Commune/Gemeinde- or in our case, C/Kanton, have their own set of criteria. Open to form link above and type in your Commune/Gemeinde, and read the reply carefully. There is no such thing as Swiss criteria- it all goes through the place where you are resident, if a foreigner, or your Heimatsort/Commune d'Origine if your spouse or parent is Swiss. BTW many also require at least 2 local referees who can be approached for an informal discussion about your 'integration'. OH chose 2 very different people, from very different walks of life, 1 neighbour and 1 one of his oldest friends here- and we knew they would say 'oh H? Absolutely- he is quiet, reserved, academic- but truly one of us'. Nothing wrong about being quiet and academic- but your dad to day attitude to the locals will definitely count.


Greenmount, no I didn't It was indeed hilarious, this old Solicitor's office in Stoke-on-Trent, with this old officious Commissioner for Oaths who looked and talked like Captain Mannering in Dad's Army - and who was taking the whole thing VERY seriously- I really wanted to laugh histerically, but knew it was best not to! But I hate saying things I don't mean and making promises I know I won't keep (see previous threads re being Godmother or mariage in Church, etc).
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  #275  
Old 16.10.2014, 11:47
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

someone just told me that the time requirement is less for people who are married to Swiss citizens. Is that true?
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  #276  
Old 16.10.2014, 11:57
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

Yes- but they are getting very wise to the fact that some unscrupulous people will marry a Swiss for that very reason- with no intention of remaining married to them for long

Two of my good friends were 'stung'- 1 a young woman with serious handicap, and the other a widow who was desperately lonely- and they were very badly used and treated. Government authorities are very aware of this and SCAM mariages are carefully scrutinised.


For spouse of Swiss CH, needs to have lived in CH for 5 years, OR, for 1 year but has been married to Swiss citizen and lived with him/her for another 3 abroad.
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  #277  
Old 16.10.2014, 12:31
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

And all of the other requirements are the same? language, integration, political knowledge etc...
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  #278  
Old 16.10.2014, 12:34
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

Yes. Have you found your Swiss victim then ?
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  #279  
Old 16.10.2014, 12:37
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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And all of the other requirements are the same? language, integration, political knowledge etc...
No, no need for any of that.

Tom
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  #280  
Old 16.10.2014, 12:52
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

Again, re: the assumption being bandied about that this gentleman chose Einsiedeln for tax reasons...

One doesn't move to Einsiedeln for low taxes. They are not low enough to justify living in this town this far out. It's certainly not Ausserschwyz. Einsiedeln is not a ZH commuter suburb - while it's doable, one generally only moves that far out because one wants the kind of life that the town offers.

One moves to Einsiedeln for the ambience of the town: The Kloster and all it brings to the community, the Sihlsee with sailing and swimming, winter sports - the area is a cross country skiing paradise - the many summer hiking possibilities. And - believe it or not - many people move there simply because of it's 'Schwyz-ness'. They like the feel of the town. All the necessary conveniences but still with a strong traditional rural character. Einsiedeln is a town that stands on it's own, something very much missing in the ZH suburbs. It really is a lovely place. I'd move there myself in a heartbeat if I could find a house.

That said, one can still love a town, be a good community member, even if one isn't 'stuck in' on an every day level. We certainly love our village (Geraniumpolizei notwithstanding) but let's face it - there is a wall preventing those not born here from getting 'stuck in'. (Notice I didn't say foreigners - this applies to Swiss incomers as well.)

Lack of local friends - friends in the Swiss 'per Du' sense - shouldn't be assumed to be a disregard for the sensibilities of a community. One can be friendly, open, pleasant, a good neighbor - and still remain a tad apart because of the nature of Schwyz culture. Living in SZ myself, it is wholly understandable to me that one might live here 39 years and still be on 'Sie' terms with one's neighbors - for the simple fact that 'per Du' will never be offered. Similarly you might never be invited into a Schwyz neighbor's home, given expectations of privacy. Any social interaction is on a formal footing. That is simply are how it works. Respecting the distance that one's Swiss neighbors prefer to keep is, in a pervse way, actually a sign of integration into the community.

Added to that, few people with the responsibilities and commitments that come with a professional career will have the free time needed to develop a 'Vereinsleben' in order to qualify for the red pass. There simply are not enoug hours in the week.

But that doesn't mean that one isn't a good neigbor, a good resident of the community.

As I said on other posts - I'm neither surprised nor upset by this case. But we should be careful of making sweeping assumptions about a gentleman and a community that we do not personally know.
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