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  #281  
Old 16.10.2014, 12:54
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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And all of the other requirements are the same? language, integration, political knowledge etc...
Do a simple search (e.g. google) and you will find most answers you require otherwise you risk clogging up this thread with often repeated questions.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/becoming-a-citizen/29288376

https://www.google.ch/search?q=swiss...NY6Y-AaB_4C4Ag
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  #282  
Old 16.10.2014, 12:57
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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No, no need for any of that.

Tom
Depends entirely where. OH had to have interview to demonstrate he could speak and understand communicative French- and that he was 'well integrated' (whatever that means... and as we know this is very subjective)- even though we have been married for 43 years. In Neuchâtel. It would be the same here in my Commune- elsewhere in NE Canton- and in most places.

At the time, (1973) there was no way I could stay and work in UK without going through the process, before the reciprocal arrangement with CH- and to be on the same passport as our children.

Last edited by Odile; 16.10.2014 at 17:57.
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  #283  
Old 16.10.2014, 13:12
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Greenmount, no I didn't It was indeed hilarious, this old Solicitor's office in Stoke-on-Trent, with this old officious Commissioner for Oaths who looked and talked like Captain Mannering in Dad's Army - and who was taking the whole thing VERY seriously- I really wanted to laugh histerically, but knew it was best not to! But I hate saying things I don't mean and making promises I know I won't keep (see previous threads re being Godmother or mariage in Church, etc).
I know, one of my cousins had to go through this procedure couple of years ago. She wasn't so convinced to apply for citizenship, but after having lived for so many years there, that seemed a reasonable thing to do. A peculiar ceremony but not too bad, all in all.
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  #284  
Old 16.10.2014, 15:05
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Re: Retired ETH professor: After 39 years not integrated enough for Swiss naturalisat

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As is the case with most Americans, Canadians, etc.

Tom

The number of Americans with US passports has been rising, according to the State Department in January 2013:

"Nearly 114 million passports are in circulation - about 37 percent of Americans have a passport (compared with 14 million in circulation in 1991)"

http://travel.state.gov/content/dam/ca_fact_sheet.pdf
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  #285  
Old 16.10.2014, 15:56
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Re: Retired ETH professor: After 39 years not integrated enough for Swiss naturalisat

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The number of Americans with US passports has been rising, according to the State Department in January 2013:

"Nearly 114 million passports are in circulation - about 37 percent of Americans have a passport (compared with 14 million in circulation in 1991)"

http://travel.state.gov/content/dam/ca_fact_sheet.pdf
I think that's partly due to the fact that you now need a full passport or travelpass card for North America/Caribbean (I think that's the word) - to go to Mexico, Canada, or the Caribbean. Up until about 2009 you could travel to any of those with just a birth certificate.
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  #286  
Old 16.10.2014, 18:45
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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At the time, (1973) there was no way I could stay and work in UK without going through the process, before the reciprocal arrangement with CH- and to be on the same passport as our children.
I know, my relative is living in the UK since 1997 or 1998, and even then it was possible to get a work&residence permit without being from E.U. (still possible, of course). At the moment it doesnt really make sense to aim the pass if you are from E.U. , but if your whole (adult) life was and still is there, kid, husband etc. why not. People have different reasons or reasoning. Besides it is a bit weird if your family travels with different passports, she finally admitted.
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  #287  
Old 16.10.2014, 18:53
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Besides it is a bit weird if your family travels with different passports, she finally admitted.
We've traveled with three on occasion (US, Canadian, Swiss) going from Canada to the US (my stepson is also Canadian, but only has a Swiss passport, and my wife and I, despite having Swiss passports as well, used our US and Canadian ones as it's easier for entering the US).

Tom
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  #288  
Old 16.10.2014, 19:01
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Depends entirely where. OH had to have interview to demonstrate he could speak and understand communicative French- and that he was 'well integrated' (whatever that means... and as we know this is very subjective)- even though we have been married for 43 years. In Neuchâtel. It would be the same here in my Commune- elsewhere in NE Canton- and in most places.
Here it was an invite to the Cantonal Police for a 10 minute chat in my very poor Italian about nothing in particular, other than my asshole neighbor.

The cop lived in the next building to ours and I'd greet him when our paths crossed, so I guess that helped.

Tom
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  #289  
Old 16.10.2014, 19:32
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

I assume the cop agreed about the asshole neighbour
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  #290  
Old 16.10.2014, 19:36
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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I assume the cop agreed about the asshole neighbour
Indeed.

Probably demonstrated that I was deeply involved in the community!

Tom
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  #291  
Old 16.10.2014, 20:24
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Here it was an invite to the Cantonal Police for a 10 minute chat in my very poor Italian about nothing in particular, other than my asshole neighbor.

The cop lived in the next building to ours and I'd greet him when our paths crossed, so I guess that helped.

Tom
More or less the same for me, but I'm not even sure it lasted the 10 minutes And like yourself I know most of those guys as well.
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  #292  
Old 16.10.2014, 20:32
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

I imagine it would have been the same in our Commune (I suppose I would not have been allowed on the 'panel' of two)- but our Commune d'origine is in another Canton, so they delegated to the Canton of residence immigration service in Neuchâtel town.

Tomorrow night we will be voting a loan of 1.1 mio, for 750 inhabitants. The huge majortiy of the population will accept it, because it is for an amenity which will benefit the majority of the inhabitants- residents who are only interested in their taxes, and not involved in the community, would probably vote no. Just to illustrate - as Mathnut explained so well earlier.

Last edited by Odile; 16.10.2014 at 23:50.
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  #293  
Old 16.10.2014, 23:36
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Re: Retired ETH professor: After 39 years not integrated enough for Swiss naturalisat

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Thank you. Can you also pass this message to the BFS? I wanted to check your claim, but in most(all?) of their publication Pass==citizenship.

PS: How was the cake?

The BFS does not say that anybody gets a passport, but speak about





Änderungen des Bürgerrechtsgesetzes (1978,1992) beeinflussten die jährliche Zahl des Schweizer Bürgerrechtserwerbs wesentlich. Die Zunahme ist in erster Linie auf von seit langem in der Schweiz lebenden, hier aufgewachsenen oder mit einem Schweizer Ehepartner verheirateten Ausländerinnen und Ausländern zurückzuführen. Zwischen 1992 und 2013 stieg die Zahl der jährlich den Schweizer Pass erwerbenden Personen um mehr als das Dreifache. Dennoch erhielten 2013 nur 2 von 100 in der Schweiz lebenden Ausländerinnen und Ausländern das einheimische Bürgerrecht – ein im internationalen Vergleich relativ niedriger Prozentsatz.


speak about Bürgerrechtserwerb ----

only the SVP propaganda distributes passports




-- and ehhhmm, btw, I am puzzled ----- WHICH CAKE ?
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  #294  
Old 16.10.2014, 23:47
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Re: Retired ETH professor: After 39 years not integrated enough for Swiss naturalisat

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WHICH CAKE ?
How many cakes did you have?
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  #295  
Old 17.10.2014, 00:21
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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someone just told me that the time requirement is less for people who are married to Swiss citizens. Is that true?
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For spouse of Swiss CH, needs to have lived in CH for 5 years, OR, for 1 year but has been married to Swiss citizen and lived with him/her for another 3 abroad.
Citizenship through marriage does not go through the Gemeinde process for naturalization, rather straight through Bern. No need to demonstrate willingness to integrate, nor impress the people in your Gemeinde.
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  #296  
Old 17.10.2014, 00:40
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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The dude lived here for 39 years, and taught at the ETH for 30 years.[...] He made more bloody effort for Switzerland than the vast majority of us ever will. He gave 30 years of his life to Switzerland.
I guess he didn't come to Switzerland simply because of humanitarian considerations. Some employer needed an employee with a specific skill-set and he fulfilled the requirements and was thus hired and allowed to immigrate. In return he received his salary, a working environment he seems to have preferred over the competition and with the C-permit the permission to reside here indefinitely.

That was the deal. Becoming Swiss citizen was never part of that. It was and is possibility for him to apply to become a Swiss citizen after the minimum years required by law, but there is no guarantee that it will be granted. There is no human right to become Swiss citizen.


Don't get me wrong. I am all for nationalisation. In fact I think the requirements should be less strict, especially for ones born here, but I am not for handing out Swiss passports just based on the achievement of having lived <x> years in Switzerland.

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Do we really expect a 75 year old retired professor to clown around trying to game the system by appearing to be integrated to the locals?
Asking this from a person who has maybe 5 years left is cynical.
It could as well be 20. Actually I am surprised he did not try to become Swiss citizen some decades ago when it became clear that the 'expat' definition wasn't really fitting any more. That he has to go through this procedure at that age is hardly anyones fault, but his own.

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Then combine this with the fact that if you are sufficiently rich, suddenly you no longer have to integrate so well and this particular rejection really leaves a bad taste.
Looking at his CV and age and comparing it to the other 11 parties that applied for citizenship, of which every single one was recommended for nationalisation by the way, it is safe to say that he should easily be in the upper half wealth-wise. If they had only recommended the two bankers and the ex-CEO of Bayer Diagnostics and turned down the Turkish car-painter, the Croatian student of English literature and the Serbian Pilates-instructor it would be a different story altogether. If anything, this shows that a pile of money and a fancy job description is not enough to buy Swiss citizenship.

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Clearly, a lifetime achievement is less valuable in their eyes than being able to name the local villages.
Swiss citizenship is not a life-time-award. It's not a way of saying "You did a good job carpenting/teaching Zumba/painting cars/working in production/researching during your working life", it's about acknowledging that somebody has made the commune their home, is well integrated, cares about the Swiss societies and can be trusted to fulfil the civic duties and represent the country.



Maybe there were some ressentiment against him or there is something more sinister behind this. I don't know. I am not saying turning him down was right, but apparently they were missing something in him which they found in the 16 other applicants. It's not like they are going to kick him out of the country anyway. He can still live here and be a valuable part of society. Just not (yet) as a Swiss citizen.
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Old 17.10.2014, 01:02
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Re: Retired ETH professor: After 39 years not integrated enough for Swiss naturalisat

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How many cakes did you have?

not soooo many, but many over the years
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  #298  
Old 17.10.2014, 01:06
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Citizenship through marriage does not go through the Gemeinde process for naturalization, rather straight through Bern. No need to demonstrate willingness to integrate, nor impress the people in your Gemeinde.

Negative -- totally impossible. Nothing the like goes via the Union. It goes through your CANTON. The Union in a way does not have any citizens. Anybody here is citizen A) of the Canton and B) of the municipality. A citizen of a Canton is automatically a citizen of the union
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Old 17.10.2014, 01:11
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Negative -- totally impossible. Nothing the like goes via the Union. It goes through your CANTON. The Union in a way does not have any citizens. Anybody here is citizen A) of the Canton and B) of the municipality. A citizen of a Canton is automatically a citizen of the union
Stop misleading, you often do. I got mine by applying directly to Bern, without even going through the Canton nor my Gemeinde. And I didn't have to kiss anybody's behind for it either.
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Old 17.10.2014, 04:33
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Stop misleading, you often do. I got mine by applying directly to Bern, without even going through the Canton nor my Gemeinde. And I didn't have to kiss anybody's behind for it either.


They in Bern for sure worked in closest conjunction with offices of the Canton and the municipality

Last edited by Wollishofener; 17.10.2014 at 04:51.
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