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  #301  
Old 17.10.2014, 07:27
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Stop misleading, you often do. I got mine by applying directly to Bern, without even going through the Canton nor my Gemeinde. And I didn't have to kiss anybody's behind for it either.

I agree. I never spoke with anyone from the canton or Gemeinde of my future "Heimatort". I only had contact (one phone call) with my local Gemeinde where I was living, which was in a different canton.

The one phone call was very short and simple. Seems like it was just up to this one person's opinion. You know kind of "arbitrary" or "subjective".
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  #302  
Old 17.10.2014, 09:42
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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I agree. I never spoke with anyone from the canton or Gemeinde of my future "Heimatort". I only had contact (one phone call) with my local Gemeinde where I was living, which was in a different canton.

The one phone call was very short and simple. Seems like it was just up to this one person's opinion. You know kind of "arbitrary" or "subjective".


To go via Gemeinde or Canton is the normal route.
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  #303  
Old 17.10.2014, 10:18
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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To go via Gemeinde or Canton is the normal route.
No. You can pick up a blank form from the Gemeinde or Canton, but the application is submitted to Bern and approved by Bern. Now stop pretending like you know everything. It misleads readers.
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  #304  
Old 17.10.2014, 13:26
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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No. You can pick up a blank form from the Gemeinde or Canton, but the application is submitted to Bern and approved by Bern. Now stop pretending like you know everything. It misleads readers.
It is quite clearly stated here. . . .

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home...uergerung.html

It does look like Wollishofner's knowledge is not completely uptodate in this respect, that is if my interpretation of the document is correct.
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  #305  
Old 17.10.2014, 13:47
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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I imagine it would have been the same in our Commune (I suppose I would not have been allowed on the 'panel' of two)- but our Commune d'origine is in another Canton, so they delegated to the Canton of residence immigration service in Neuchâtel town.
Same here, mine it in SG, but it was all done locally.

Tom
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  #306  
Old 17.10.2014, 13:53
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Citizenship through marriage does not go through the Gemeinde process for naturalization, rather straight through Bern. No need to demonstrate willingness to integrate, nor impress the people in your Gemeinde.
I did it via my commune, then in turn dealt with the Heimatort and Bern.

The heimatort can object, by the way, and I'm sure that the commune of residence gives input as well.

It's not just Bern's decision.

Tom
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  #307  
Old 17.10.2014, 14:20
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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I did it via my commune, then in turn dealt with the Heimatort and Bern.

The heimatort can object, by the way, and I'm sure that the commune of residence gives input as well.

It's not just Bern's decision.

Tom

I had not even been to my official Heimatort, and only once drove past it many years later. The only interaction I had with the commune was to ask for a blank form. I believe it is more criteria driven, and definitely not through voting by members of the commune.

Interestingly, when I first asked my local commune, they said I could not apply and had to be living there for at least 5 years. But a colleague who understood the process instructed me to request a form by its specific ID number. I went back to the same clerk and he says, "Oh THAT form?". I believe he intentionally tried to mislead and dissuade me from applying.

I got my papers about two months after submission, with no questions asked. I had solid references, but I don't know if that had anything to do with the simplicity I experienced.
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  #308  
Old 17.10.2014, 15:40
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

I think we're crossing types of naturalization here, which only muddles the water.

If I am reading correctly, the professor in question was going for "regular" naturalization, which is often very involved at the local level. My understanding is that if you go through this process, your Heimatort is the place you're living when you naturalize. In the professor's case, that would have been Einsiedeln.

Phos, it sounds like your naturalization was "facilitated" because you talk about the municipality where you were living versus the place that became your Heimatort. My understanding is that if you naturalize this way, your Heimatort becomes that of your spouse even if your spouse has never lived there. However assuming you don't live in said Heimatort, the local municipality where you live handles the paperwork processing in conjunction with the Heimatort.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 17.10.2014 at 15:41. Reason: better wording, I hope?
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  #309  
Old 17.10.2014, 15:52
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Phos, it sounds like your naturalization was "facilitated" because you talk about the municipality where you were living versus the place that became your Heimatort. My understanding is that if you naturalize this way, your Heimatort becomes that of your spouse even if your spouse has never lived there. However assuming you don't live in said Heimatort, the local municipality where you live handles the paperwork processing in conjunction with the Heimatort.
That is correct. I was just correcting Wollishofener, who erroneously tried to correct a point.

Carry on please.
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  #310  
Old 17.10.2014, 18:54
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

There is also a big difference with regards to whether you are married to a Swiss or not.
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  #311  
Old 17.10.2014, 20:46
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

According to the "Blick", Prof. Dunn has decided not to contest the rejection of his Swiss citizenship application, citing cost and uncertainty of outcome as well as sensitivity of the case. He is, however, considering re-applying for citizenship:

http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/sch...id3205475.html

Good luck to him!
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  #312  
Old 17.10.2014, 20:53
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

I hope to become a Swiss citizen as soon as possible. That red passport is very sexy!!!
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  #313  
Old 17.10.2014, 21:05
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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I hope to become a Swiss citizen as soon as possible. That red passport is very sexy!!!
Ha ha. I'd love to see the committee's faces when you tell them that.
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  #314  
Old 17.10.2014, 21:15
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Ha ha. I'd love to see the committee's faces when you tell them that.
Committee? Not if he finds the Miss Right (CH) and is prepared to wait a bit.
(facilitated naturalisation).
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  #315  
Old 18.10.2014, 12:01
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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No. You can pick up a blank form from the Gemeinde or Canton, but the application is submitted to Bern and approved by Bern. Now stop pretending like you know everything. It misleads readers.

*Bern" has to consult the Canton and the Gemeinde


Your "info" is MISleading. And the Canton has NOT to consult the Union.


AND to say it again, nobody is citizen of the Union, but everybody is citizen of the Canton --- to say it in the words
of Prof Jean Ziegler * la Suisse " n'existe pas --- my ideas are based on the Swiss Federal Constitution


the Cantons established the Confederation, the confederation never estblished Cantons --- exceptional cases are Ticino, Aargau and Thurgau which were established by Emperor Napoleon I, when he ruled this Country


to give a practical example. A Business friend in Nicosia who had lived for years between 1957 and 1971 in Switzerland got a promise from the Swiss ambassador to Cyprus that he would be a CH citizen by year end. The Italian ambassador who sat at the same table made a bet against for 24 bottles of good red wine. The CH ambassador had to take it up with his hometown Winterthur which approved. The CH ambassador then gave him, in late November
- Heimatschein -- approved by Winterthur
- Identity Card -- issued by the State Chancellory of the Canton of Zürich
- Passport -- also issued by the State Chancellory of the Canton of Zürich, but on federal paper
NO decision was taken of federal Level, but they even advised their ambassador to talk with Winterthur


and so, to YOU
- you are a woman or a man ?
- you were/are married to a Swiss man or woman ?
- what Office in Bern exactly did you consult ?
- WHY did they not proceed ?
- legal Problems ? for example a divorce case ?
without clear answers we have to regard your Story as a fairytale

Last edited by Wollishofener; 18.10.2014 at 12:38.
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Old 18.10.2014, 12:13
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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I hope to become a Swiss citizen as soon as possible. That red passport is very sexy!!!

But once you become a Swiss citizen, do not be disappointed by NOT getting a passport but a shabby looking piece of paper confirming the point
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  #317  
Old 18.10.2014, 12:17
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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*Bern" has to consult the Canton and the Gemeinde


Your "info" is MISleading. And the Canton has NOT to consult the Union.


AND to say it again, nobody is citizen of the Union, but everybody is citizen of the Canton --- to say it in the words
of Prof Jean Ziegler * la Suisse " n'existe pas --- my ideas are based on the Swiss Federal Constitution


the Cantons established the Confederation, the confederation never estblished Cantons --- exceptional cases are Ticino, Aargau and Thurgau which were established by Emperor Napoleon I, when he ruled this country
you are right. It needs 3 level of approvals: commune, canton and federal. But it's the canton that drives the process and it's the cantonal parliament that votes the naturalization.
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  #318  
Old 18.10.2014, 12:30
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

A good article here:

http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home...num_57_6_18427

The process varies hugely from Commune/Gemeinde to Canton/Kanton, that is for sure. For OH's facilitated naturalisation, I suppose the reason he had to go for interview was because we had not lived in CH for 5 years- whereas I imagine Tom had when he made his request.

And as said, the people on the Committee in individual Communes are much more varied than it is possible to imagine. On the Committee here, my attitude is vastly different to the other members!

So, even if you find a Swiss to marry you- you still have to wait the minimum of 5 years, and be able to prove beyond doubt that it is not a sham marriage
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Old 18.10.2014, 12:49
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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A good article here:

http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home...num_57_6_18427

The process varies hugely from Commune/Gemeinde to Canton/Kanton, that is for sure. For OH's facilitated naturalisation, I suppose the reason he had to go for interview was because we had not lived in CH for 5 years- whereas I imagine Tom had when he made his request.

And as said, the people on the Committee in individual Communes are much more varied than it is possible to imagine. On the Committee here, my attitude is vastly different to the other members!

So, even if you find a Swiss to marry you- you still have to wait the minimum of 5 years, and be able to prove beyond doubt that it is not a sham marriage

Ahhhh, so that I presume that the blanket paper "Phos" had to sign was a confirmation that she had not been in a sham marriage but a real one and then send it to the Federal Justice and Police department EJPD


************************************************** **********************


also clear is that the Professor has to relocate to Zürich and then later re-start the procedure (I don'to know when this will be)
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Old 18.10.2014, 18:49
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

Here is a case which demonstrates where the authority lies in "Facilitated Naturalisation". This is not relevant to the matter of the Professor from Einsiedeln because his case was one of "Regular Naturalisation". It is, however, relevant to the lively discussion between Mr. Wollishofner & Mr/Ms? Phos where "Facilitated Naturalisation" was the subject.
The newspaper article (German) describes a conflict between the Kanton and the Bundesamt für Migration over the naturalisation of a Chinese woman.

http://www.appenzellerzeitung.ch/ost...123832,3027687

and the legal basis is described here . . .
https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home...uergerung.html
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