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  #381  
Old 04.01.2015, 14:25
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Dear Professor Dunn,

You have ignored the one deciding factor that led to your present predicament: your own behaviour.

- You have neighbours that have helped you many times and yet you could not name one aquaintance in your initial interview.

- The commission unanimously agreed to not approve your application because you did not fulfill the stated requirements. It was not a decision of one political party only.

- You have said yourself you did not take the naturalization interview seriously and did not prepare yourself adequately.

The media has agreed to make you a "victim" where, in truth, you just couldn't give a damn about the rules and regulations involved in your naturalization.

You should be ashamed of yourself, Professor Dunn, and so should the media for sensationalizing a case and ignoring the shortcomings of the applicant involved.

Well, I asked myself whether I in case I were an Einsiedler would have given a vote in his favour, and the honest answer is a clear NO. Not so much for any of the reaasons above but simply because he apparently is simply an ARROGANT academic working in the City and regarding those locals as rural underdeveloped provincials.
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  #382  
Old 04.01.2015, 16:46
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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[...]simply because he apparently is simply an ARROGANT academic working in the City and regarding those locals as rural underdeveloped provincials.
I saw a short interview a few months back and he came across rather unobtrusive. Based on that your assumption is probably wrong.
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  #383  
Old 04.01.2015, 20:09
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

One interview. 40 years of good work done.
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  #384  
Old 04.01.2015, 23:34
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Dear Professor Dunn,

You have ignored the one deciding factor that led to your present predicament: your own behaviour.

- You have neighbours that have helped you many times and yet you could not name one aquaintance in your initial interview.

- The commission unanimously agreed to not approve your application because you did not fulfill the stated requirements. It was not a decision of one political party only.

- You have said yourself you did not take the naturalization interview seriously and did not prepare yourself adequately.

The media has agreed to make you a "victim" where, in truth, you just couldn't give a damn about the rules and regulations involved in your naturalization.

You should be ashamed of yourself, Professor Dunn, and so should the media for sensationalizing a case and ignoring the shortcomings of the applicant involved.
do you know him personally?



I don't have any flag to fly one way or the other about this man's case for naturalization, but it should not come as any surprise that his case is getting media attention given the subject (naturalization and integration) and the fact that there are differing political and other views surrounding the subject. they have made movies about it, after all, and it remains a very central and integral theme within Swiss-German culture, second perhaps only to taking digs at the Germans. without discussion about immigration, integration and what it means to be "Swiss", Tagi and most other mainstream Swiss media sources would run out of things to print.

you also have to admit that, for certain political or other elements, this man's case presents some rather fortunate circumstances in that he is an American and a retired university professor, rather than an asylum-seeking welfare refugee with a criminal past. it suits the cause of those political elements to push publicity around his case, obviously.
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  #385  
Old 05.01.2015, 00:13
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Well, I asked myself whether I in case I were an Einsiedler would have given a vote in his favour, and the honest answer is a clear NO. Not so much for any of the reaasons above but simply because he apparently is simply an ARROGANT academic working in the City and regarding those locals as rural underdeveloped provincials.
Agreeing with my foreposters;

how could he possibly do an academic work at Einsiedeln, in your opinion? Opening his own university or verarmter Forscher im Keller, oder wie?
Switzerland accepts everybody, EF is one of the best proofs. In the positive and its negative meaning. All those who don't even have to do any exam, don't speak any of the national or even local languages, don't know a sh** about the country, and worse, don't even care; what should we do with them, iyho?

That freaky Gemeinde there should have generously overlooked the fact that the guy didn't take the local stuff so seriously. I mean, how could a normal person, after getting mad with that crappy local admin there for 40 years?
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  #386  
Old 05.01.2015, 03:30
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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I saw a short interview a few months back and he came across rather unobtrusive. Based on that your assumption is probably wrong.

This may well be. BUT he did NOT prepare well for the official interview, did NOT have much knowledge about local affairs, did not have much respect for locals he knew, did not show much interest in local structures, so what
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  #387  
Old 05.01.2015, 11:38
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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This may well be. BUT he did NOT prepare well for the official interview, did NOT have much knowledge about local affairs, did not have much respect for locals he knew, did not show much interest in local structures, so what
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40 years of good work done. Countless students educated, a clear service to the community. One interview gone wrong. No Swiss.
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40 years doing nothing at all, only consuming, but saluting the neighbour. No contribution. Actually, a saluting parasite. One interview gone right. Swiss.
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  #388  
Old 05.01.2015, 12:01
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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This may well be. BUT he did NOT prepare well for the official interview, did NOT have much knowledge about local affairs, did not have much respect for locals he knew, did not show much interest in local structures, so what
That differs quite a bit from the post I replied to.

As I said in October, I think he's a fool for apparently not even bothering to read the letter that accompanies the info he got sent. Else he'd have known the interview was a test, and invested an afternoon or two to memorize the few things he didn't know already.

But that doesn't make him (come across) arrogant.
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  #389  
Old 05.01.2015, 13:01
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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40 years of good work done. Countless students educated, a clear service to the community. One interview gone wrong. No Swiss.
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40 years doing nothing at all, only consuming, but saluting the neighbour. No contribution. Actually, a saluting parasite. One interview gone right. Swiss.
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He was offered a second interview, simplified, and a 500 Franc discount. He declined and is blaming local SVP politicians for his woes.
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  #390  
Old 05.01.2015, 15:32
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

I remember cases in Ticino that involved Italian citizens seeking naturalization in Switzerland. I don't remember the particular reason why a local admin naturalization committee thought they would need a language (i.e. Italian) test. Anyhow, some of the applicants gently denied and subsequently renounced seeking Swiss citizenship for this very reason.
I don't think it's arrogance from their side, but from the local admin (I still deplore the good old guillotine for public employees and politicians being removed. ).
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  #391  
Old 05.01.2015, 16:45
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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He was offered a second interview, simplified, and a 500 Franc discount. He declined and is blaming local SVP politicians for his woes.
Whatever the country, whatever the process:
It is not the best of ideas to pay again, whatever the discount, to go through the same process again, few days after the first rejection, with the same people taking the decision.
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  #392  
Old 05.01.2015, 17:43
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40 years of good work done. Countless students educated, a clear service to the community. One interview gone wrong. No Swiss.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40 years doing nothing at all, only consuming, but saluting the neighbour. No contribution. Actually, a saluting parasite. One interview gone right. Swiss.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the problem is called PSYCHOLOGY. When getting from Zürich or Basel to the INNERSCHWIIZ, to the WALLIS or to GRAUBÛNDEN, you have to face the Point that "THEY" expect you to be an arrogant person. In my last military service we had a colleague also from Zürich but from the Züriberg.Ober-Klass who behaved accordingly. He got boycotted which means that when he went into a restaurant/bar, the others paid and left. And so I told one of them "but Wildberger and me are also from Zch ..." and the reply was "but you two are, even if we often DISagree with your views, often exotic and bizarre to us Bündner, the sort of Zürcher we like and admire. And you both are ready to explain and to discuss and then WE ALSO are ready for talk and compromise" --- It is NOT a one-way-road, never. It may have escaped his mind that he to those Einsiedler folks was/is another of those Zürcher Protestants. That he failed to see THIS aspect of life in Switzerland is rather regrettable
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  #393  
Old 05.01.2015, 17:48
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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That differs quite a bit from the post I replied to.

As I said in October, I think he's a fool for apparently not even bothering to read the letter that accompanies the info he got sent. Else he'd have known the interview was a test, and invested an afternoon or two to memorize the few things he didn't know already.

But that doesn't make him (come across) arrogant.

You above replied to a post in which I explained why I if an Einsiedler would have voted against him


Above I tried to analyze the mistakes he did


Basically I am still in his favour to become Swiss, but his idea to become a citizen of the Canton of Schwyz was wrong
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  #394  
Old 05.01.2015, 19:09
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Basically I am still in his favour to become Swiss, but his idea to become a citizen of the Canton of Schwyz was wrong
But he lived there for so many years, no? Where else?
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  #395  
Old 05.01.2015, 23:13
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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But he lived there for so many years, no? Where else?

LIVED ? He had a domicile up in the Catholic Alps, but defacto lived in Zürich (between Thalwil and Winterthur). He should have turned his home up there into a holiday home and should have rented a small apartment between Thalwil and Winterthur. Had he applied in Winterthur or Zürich, he now would BE a citizen of the Canton of Zürich
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  #396  
Old 06.01.2015, 01:27
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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LIVED ? He had a domicile up in the Catholic Alps, but defacto lived in Zürich (between Thalwil and Winterthur). He should have turned his home up there into a holiday home and should have rented a small apartment between Thalwil and Winterthur. Had he applied in Winterthur or Zürich, he now would BE a citizen of the Canton of Zürich
Well, not everyone is so clever with this kind of things and able to foresee the future...
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  #397  
Old 06.01.2015, 02:02
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Well, not everyone is so clever with this kind of things and able to foresee the future...

It is not about foreseeing the future, but about knowing the rules of the game. "This kind of things "" also is known as ""Swiss Confederation""
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  #398  
Old 06.01.2015, 10:10
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Had he applied in Winterthur or Zürich, he now would BE a citizen of the Canton of Zürich
Wolli: You don't know that for sure.

Below is one of the requirements for naturalisation in Zürich.

Integration

Die einbürgerungswillige Person muss integriert sein. Dazu muss sie:

in die schweizerischen und örtlichen Verhältnisse eingegliedert sein,
mit den Verhältnissen und Lebensformen in der Schweiz, im Kanton und in der Gemeinde vertraut sein,
über Grundkenntnisse der gesellschaftlichen und politischen Verhältnisse in der Schweiz, im Kanton und in der Gemeinde verfügen.


Without being able to demonstrate evidence of the above, an applicant would not be approved in Zürich either.
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  #399  
Old 06.01.2015, 17:05
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Wolli: You don't know that for sure.

Below is one of the requirements for naturalisation in Zürich.

Integration

Die einbürgerungswillige Person muss integriert sein. Dazu muss sie:

in die schweizerischen und örtlichen Verhältnisse eingegliedert sein,
mit den Verhältnissen und Lebensformen in der Schweiz, im Kanton und in der Gemeinde vertraut sein,
über Grundkenntnisse der gesellschaftlichen und politischen Verhältnisse in der Schweiz, im Kanton und in der Gemeinde verfügen.


Without being able to demonstrate evidence of the above, an applicant would not be approved in Zürich either.

You speak like the Italian ambassador to Cyprus who argued that the CH ambassador to Nicosia had no chance to make Mr Sc... a Swiss citizen. They made a bet about 24 bottles of red wine. 3 months later Mr Sc.... got a phone-call. Come to the CH embassy tomorrow. The ambassador had made it possible for Mr Sc..... (originally citizen of Savona and Cairo, 1 year in Luzern, 2 years in Le Locle and 10 years in Zürich) to become a citizen of the City of Winterthur. His first Thing on his next trip to Western Europe was to pay a visit to Winterthur, where he had never been before.
He profited from the good wine the Italian ambassador brought over, but his wife and his son and he himself are now WINTERTHURER. Yes, his family listens per Internet to Swiss Radio and TV and ARE closely informed, so that Mr Ambassador, a Winterthurer himself could clearly tell that Mr Sc.... is informed about CH and speaks, beside Italian, Arabic, English, French, Turkish, Persian/Farsi and Greek,. fluently German, both dialect and Standard German


In other words, YES, I am certain that the Winterthurer would make Mr Professor a true Winterthurer before his 80th birthday
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Old 06.01.2015, 18:08
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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I saw a short interview a few months back and he came across rather unobtrusive. Based on that your assumption is probably wrong.
[...]simply because he apparently is simply an ARROGANT academic working in the City and regarding those locals as rural underdeveloped provincials

Too arrogant or too obtrusive.
Damned if you do and damned if you don`t!
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