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  #141  
Old 15.10.2014, 09:21
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

If that was a disqualification the population would halve overnight.

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We assume a lot, in this thread.
None of the given links speaks about him being arrogant, lazy or whatever.
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  #142  
Old 15.10.2014, 09:37
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

He couldn't remember the name of Willerzell, which is the town across the lake from his village.

Either:
1) this man is very eccentric
2) he has health issues

One article mentioned there was a heated debate among the appointed citizenship committee on whether to grant the candidate citizenship. With all this media coverage, I wonder if the committee will change its mind.

Edit: Source: http://www.srf.ch/news/regional/zent...den-roten-pass
Der Kalifornier erklärte dagegen, er fühle sich seit langem in der Schweiz zuhause, habe unter anderem an der ETH viel für die Ausbildung junger Schweizer geleistet. Und er kritisierte die Behörde, sie habe sich nicht wirklich interessiert, etwas über ihn herauszufinden: «Es war wie ein Schulzimmer mit sechs Lehrern. Ich habe mich einfach an einige Dinge nicht erinnern können. Dinge wie das Dorf Egg oder Wilerzell.»
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  #143  
Old 15.10.2014, 09:42
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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He was also described as an introvert and career focused person by his friends. I don't see why he should have gone out of his way to preserve some convenience relations with the locals, although he is said to be part of some local clubs etc. This guy was honest, isn't that what the Swiss would normally appreciate?
Whatever, after 39 years, without causing any problems, he should have been granted citizenship anyway. Of course there will be Swisser than the Swiss here (you know the type) who will argue this ad nauseam.
Grenmount, I agree with you as to what the process should be. No question, that the decision is so subjective, places weight on things that are unreasonable, is certainly problematic.

But I guess I'm too much of a realist - or have lived too long in a small Schwyzer village - to get upset over this. I'm done tilting at windmills.

The process will never be fair or even reasonable. But anyone living in Schwyz knows this, and either decides the red pass prize makes playing the game as it is set worthwhile, or says 'Pfui!' and goes on with one's life.

I can't carry a tune in a bucket, so the Frauenchor is out. I'm ichthyophobic, so the Fischerverein is too. Too old and wobbly for the Veloverein, too young for the Seniorentreff. I've already blotted my copybook with the Geraniumpolizei. Ah well... Pfui!

.

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  #144  
Old 15.10.2014, 09:43
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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He couldn't remember the name of Willerzell, which is the town across the lake from his village.

Either:
1) this man is very eccentric
2) he has health issues

One article mentioned there was a heated debate among the appointed citizenship committee on whether to grant the candidate citizenship. With all this media coverage, I wonder if the committee will change its mind.
No doubt Anna Mae didn't have any problems securing her citizenship, wonder why?
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  #145  
Old 15.10.2014, 09:47
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

So I was right!! "SVP-Anhänger hielten dagegen". (Trans. "Members of the SVP voted against )" ) F**k this party and all it stands for-which is zero!
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Tages-Anzeiger article gives additional information on Einsiedeln's rejection of Prof. Dunn's naturalisation application:
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/21331686

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  #146  
Old 15.10.2014, 10:01
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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well i am sure that Einsiedeln is infested by SVP virus
You mean the sort of people who make negative assumptions about people they don't know based on little evidence and their own prejudices?
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  #147  
Old 15.10.2014, 10:11
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Grenmount, I agree with you as to what the process should be. No question, that the decision is so subjective, places weight on things that are unreasonable, is certainly problematic.

But I guess I'm too much of a realist - or have lived too long in a small Schwyzer village - to get upset over this. I'm done tilting at windmills.

The process will never be fair or even reasonable. But anyone living in Schwyz knows this, and either decides the red pass prize makes playing the game as it is set worthwhile, or says 'Pfui!' and goes on with one's life.

I can't carry a tune in a bucket, so the Frauenchor is out. I'm ichthyophobic, so the Fischerverein is too. Too old and wobbly for the Veloverein, too young for the Seniorentreff. I've already blotted my copybook with the Geraniumpolizei. Ah well... Pfui!

.
You're right. In fact I do believe that the Swiss citizenship is worth of some effort, for instance to study everything they give you in order to pass an interview (I'm naturally curious anyway), but otherwise...I'd like to be left with some dignity and self-respect too. I'd hate to have to please the bigoted Geraniumpolizei for instance. So, yeah probably...phui!
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  #148  
Old 15.10.2014, 10:19
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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2) he has health issues
is your medical history taken into account when applying for citizenship?
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  #149  
Old 15.10.2014, 10:24
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

well maybe be had a " bucket list"
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is your medical history taken into account when applying for citizenship?
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Old 15.10.2014, 10:30
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

The locals are probably xenophobic anyhow.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/xenophobic
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He was also described as an introvert and career focused person by his friends. I don't see why he should have gone out of his way to preserve some convenience relations with the locals, although he is said to be part of some local clubs etc. This guy was honest, isn't that what the Swiss would normally appreciate?
Whatever, after 39 years, without causing any problems, he should have been granted citizenship anyway. Of course there will be Swisser than the Swiss here (you know the type) who will argue this ad nauseam.
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  #151  
Old 15.10.2014, 10:35
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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So I was right!! "SVP-Anhänger hielten dagegen". (Trans. "Members of the SVP voted against )" ) F**k this party and all it stands for-which is zero!
Yet they were fine with a handful of Balkans and Germans.

Shurely shome mishtake, Ed?
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  #152  
Old 15.10.2014, 10:42
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

He has to climb the Mythen wearing lederhosen and bring the committee back an Edelweiss- or maybe not. Alternatively, he could try internet dating for a Swiss wife, or adopt a Milka cow, anything that shows his service to the Canton and his general subservience to the locals. What I would do is stand outside the Gemeindesamt, or wherever they made the decision with a big placard stating credentials, how much he got fleeced and that he didn't get it. That's what a real Swiss would do.
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  #153  
Old 15.10.2014, 10:42
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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He couldn't remember the name of Willerzell, which is the town across the lake from his village.
I could only find a more vague statement:
"Der Gesuchsteller konnte die Ortschaften des Bezirks Einsiedeln (die sechs Viertel) nicht vollständig aufzählen."
What is the source for your statement or have I missed something ?
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  #154  
Old 15.10.2014, 10:47
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

I was never given a study guide to my test. They (police) just showed up unannounced and asked me a bunch of questions. I'm guessing I got 50/50 on my test and still got the pass. I took me a whole year after receiving Swiss citizenship to actually go and get the actual paper pass as it's not a big deal nor that important for me. Anyways what if this guy basically lived in his office as most professors do? How is he to know the locals from his office in Zurich?
This is typical peanut brained Bunzli B.S. How do I know? Half of my family are these kind of people. Minds are hard as a rock yet completely empty. When they look at a calendar they see 1914 not 2014.
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  #155  
Old 15.10.2014, 10:49
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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The locals are probably xenophobic anyhow.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/xenophobic
No, they weren't. He was the only American there and according to the latest definition of xenophobia it's all alright (as in selective xenophobia is fine) when you target only one group.
On a more serious note, I don't think that was the cause of this man's "misfortune", or him being an American had anything to do with it. It was a complicated situation that went on for years, partly because he probably wasn't very adept socially (apart from his close circle), partially because the locals wanted to prove him something. I'm afraid that as long as we don't have full access to the gossip of frauenverein we can't draw any realistic conclusion.
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  #156  
Old 15.10.2014, 10:51
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

I'm really on the fence with this one, but not because I don't think he should have gotten the citizenship.

I like the fact that people get to decide on important matters in Switzerland. It is a rare place where democracy is as direct as it gets, and the citizens know this. They exercise their right to decide. This is in stark contrast to the general voter apathy in practically every other country.

Wishy washy liberals who know what's best for others can foam at their mouth as much as they want, but I support the Swiss people's right to vote and decide matters that affect them. Who becomes a citizen is one of these matters. Ultimately (as others have posted), in a direct democracy, getting citizenship is far more than just a country wide affair. The candidate can have a tangible effect on the functioning of the commune. In many other countries, nobody gives a rats arse because it's all decided centrally and one more vote to the X million is like a fart in a hurricane.

I chose not to live in one of those countries, I want to live in a country where it is (as much as possible) not some remote knob in a fancy building 500 km away who decides whether the local roads get re-paved. I want it to be decided by the locals, or at worst by a local knob whose decisions are easier to influence.

With that said, direct democracy has its failings and I believe this is one of them. The dude lived here for 39 years, and taught at the ETH for 30 years. I think saying that he didn't make an effort is dishonest at best. He made more bloody effort for Switzerland than the vast majority of us ever will. He gave 30 years of his life to Switzerland. Do we really expect a 75 year old retired professor to clown around trying to game the system by appearing to be integrated to the locals? By all means, force the 30 year old immigrant to integrate and make sure he knows the local lore for the next 50 years of his life. Asking this from a person who has maybe 5 years left is cynical. It is petty and it reeks of double standards. Do we really want him to spend his precious remaining time with this kind of crap?

Then combine this with the fact that if you are sufficiently rich, suddenly you no longer have to integrate so well and this particular rejection really leaves a bad taste.

After this, I wouldn't want to live in that commune. Clearly, a lifetime achievement is less valuable in their eyes than being able to name the local villages. It is their prerogative to decide like this, and I support their right to do so, but I would not want to live amongst such people.
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Old 15.10.2014, 10:55
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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Do we really expect a 75 year old retired professor to clown around trying to game the system by appearing to be integrated to the locals?
In Einsiedeln, the answer is clearly yes.
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  #158  
Old 15.10.2014, 11:01
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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partially because the locals wanted to prove him something. I'm afraid that as long as we don't have full access to the gossip of frauenverein we can't draw any realistic conclusion.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! In a town where everyone knows the color of ones poop this mans poop was a mystery. He must give full disclosure before he can become Swiss.
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  #159  
Old 15.10.2014, 11:04
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

I 'll duck for cover after I write this but sometimes I think it would be a good idea is countries has reciprocal agreements, such as:


You give us the Swiss test, we in the US will give you the same type of questions, lets see if you pass. NB you must use the correct US pronunciation for all answers to be clearly understood.


For all EU members entering the UK or US or CH, you will be given the same standard amount of economic/welfare/medical support and job opportunities as your country allows Brits and Americans.
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Old 15.10.2014, 11:28
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Re: American professor denied Swiss citizenship

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You give us the Swiss test, we in the US will give you the same type of questions, lets see if you pass. NB you must use the correct US pronunciation for all answers to be clearly understood.
Here some of the US questions, look if you would pass:

What did Susan B. Anthony do?
Name one state that borders Mexico.
Name one state that borders Canada.
What is one responsibility that is only for United States citizens?*
What are two Cabinet-level positions?
What is the supreme law of the land?
What is the name of the Vice President of the United States now?
Who is in charge of the executive branch?
What are two rights in the Declaration of Independence?
Who wrote the Declaration of Independence?
How many amendments does the Constitution have?
What does the Constitution do?
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