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  #101  
Old 31.10.2014, 20:32
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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It has been reported that Swiss Customs officials are asking to see the passports of all passengers on trains from Italy. I understand this action by the Swiss customs or border authorities to be a breach the Schengen Agreement and the domestic law implementing it. Many people were subject to a passport or immigration check (not merely a check to see if you are importing goods and paying appropriate dutes, which they are entitled to do). Neither a police officer or a customs officer has the legal right to force a person to pay a ticket under threat of detention. By making this threat the customs officer abused her/his power.
I have looked through, but not read, all the responses. So be gentle if what follows is unhelpful.

The law on carrying an identity document is discussed in this comment by a jurist:
http://www.solutionsavocats.ch/docum...edidentite.pdf
I know that in many European countries other than the UK and Ireland, persons are required to have an identity document at all times (or a police report of loss or an embassy receipt while awaiting visa or passport renewal, etc.) The Swiss rule is rather lenient but not nearly so lenient as the British.

The night train from Milan is a well-known migrant carrier and is closely inspected, whereas day trains are not so much (we've taken the Venice train to Lausanne; and I've taken trains to Campione d'Italia via Domodossola on occasion without query. But when I could not get a sleeping car (because I was coming from San Marino and the timing was wrong) I stretched out in a compartment and was rudely disturbed first by the Italian police -- who took a doubtful attitude to my Swiss ID card -- and then by the Swiss (who acknowledged the card as genuine but had their dog sniff my valise).

I'm used to border guards having powerful rights: especially in the USA (where they use those rights aggressively inland, targeting persons they've racially profiled) and in France where I myself was rudely stopped by the CRS near Marseille driving a WW-registered van to the ferry for Algeria. (I was able to show the CRS proper car documents, a proper French driving license from years before when I'd been posted to Paris, and insurance. I refused him permission to inspect the interior because I had an ordre de mission diplomatique and a diplomatic passport. I told him to get consent of the Foreign Ministry if he wanted to look (I had cases of duty-free wine for our Ambassador, but no receipts). The CRS gave up.)

In retirement I know to be more polite and accommodating to authority as I have no rights. We go often to Aosta these days by car and are always waved through. I guess the day I have an extra few grammes of meat I will be stopped.
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  #102  
Old 31.10.2014, 20:55
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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^^^^Why link when you can copy and paste?
we are only on page 5. I want to see page 50
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  #103  
Old 31.10.2014, 22:50
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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Thanks, seems to work the other way too!
I have often seen German ambulances and emergency doctors attending at accidents on the Swiss side of the border.
Maybe the German approach is better? So far as I understand they usually send a doctor in addition to the ambulance whereas in Switzerland you just get the CHF 1,000 ambulance?
If I ever need an ambulance I will try to persuade my wife to drag me the 3 Km to the German border !? More comprehensive service and lower price?

There are many regional agreements accross the border, particularily in border regions like Konstanz-Kreuzlingen, SteinAmRhein-Singen-Schaffhausen-Jestetten, Laufenburg/CH/DE etc .


And here more Information
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutz_...ng_Z%C3%BCrich
which shows that the Airport has become an operational centre of the whole structure

Last edited by Wollishofener; 31.10.2014 at 23:02.
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  #104  
Old 06.11.2014, 14:52
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

Not really sure what the problem is. I have been asked for ID on a train before when crossing from France to Switzerland (they were not interested in my train ticket). If a person is crossing the border and has the ID required to do so, why would anyone want to deny an official from looking at if they have nothing to hide? Having no ID is one thing, and not having a ticket is another. Anyone taking public transport to cross a border should have both.
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  #105  
Old 06.11.2014, 14:56
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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Not really sure what the problem is. I have been asked for ID on a train before when crossing from France to Switzerland (they were not interested in my train ticket). If a person is crossing the border and has the ID required to do so, why would anyone want to deny an official from looking at if they have nothing to hide? Having no ID is one thing, and not having a ticket is another. Anyone taking public transport to cross a border should have both.
The OP is an Italian, probably dealing with the influx of refugees into Italy. Probably wondering why it is fair for Switzerland to check, and why they do not look the other way and let tens of thousands of Syrian refugees into Switzerland and beyond. Italy would like nothing more than to dump the influx of refugees into someone else's lap.
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  #106  
Old 07.11.2014, 18:16
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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Back to the original post, I saw this happen once on the train from Milano back to Lausanne. It was not so much immigration, but customs. They asked for your passport first, but then the ladies sitting next to me....They asked to see in their shopping bags and wanted receipts for their purchases. Right then and there they made the ladies pay custom taxes on their purchases. Passport check first probably to make sure they didn't live in Italy where the purchases were made.
I have been on this drag fairly frequently over the last two years for work. First the Italian customs come down the train. They are looking for Italians smuggling money or asset notes into switzerland to avoid tax. Then the border police come down, they are checking ID's. Since the Brits have no formal ID, the only acceptable once happens to be a passport. I have been asked twice to show ID. These guys are looking for illegal immigrants from elsewhere I think.
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  #107  
Old 07.11.2014, 18:59
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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The OP is an Italian, probably dealing with the influx of refugees into Italy. Probably wondering why it is fair for Switzerland to check, and why they do not look the other way and let tens of thousands of Syrian refugees into Switzerland and beyond. Italy would like nothing more than to dump the influx of refugees into someone else's lap.
The problem is, in order to move the refugees back to Italy, Switzerland needs guarantees by Italy for their proper accomodation, plus of proper education in the case of kids. Since Italy has no interest of taking them back Switzerland will have to wait for at least half an eternity for valid guarantees to arrive.

Dublin accord, at least as far as Italy/Switzerland are concerned, has been invalidated (german article) by the european court on human rights a few days ago.
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  #108  
Old 07.11.2014, 20:25
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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Italy would like nothing more than to dump the influx of refugees into someone else's lap.
That's a bit unfair from you. Have you noticed over time how often Italy is confronted not only with refuges from war countries but also with illegal African immigrants coming by boat? I think that most of the time they do their best to at least temporarily accommodate all of them, offer medical treatment etc. They have their many faults with foreigners, but not this one.
I've even heard of a desolate village in Sicily where many refuges found a new life.
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  #109  
Old 07.11.2014, 20:34
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

When we visited Sicily (this June) the tension was palpable. Same in Malta a couple of years back- but of course, there are individuals and communities that have made a huge effort- same as in the Calais area (Welcome is a wonderful film about that situation). The tourism industry in Lampedusa has practicall come to an end- due to the refugee situation, creating huge resentment by locals. We stayed in several locations in Western Sicily, and the locals made it clear they didn't want their own tourism industry to be 'blighted'- some of their comments were truly shocking.

The Italian Government announced a few days ago they will no longer patrol the waters between Africa and Italy- as they feel that the many rescues are encouraging more to come. Their spokesperson said the other day something to the effect that 'yes they will die in large numbers, but we won't see them'. Certainly not an easy situation in that part of the Med.

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  #110  
Old 07.11.2014, 20:46
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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When we visited Sicily, the tension was palpable. Same in Malta a couple of years back- but of course, there are individuals and communities that have made a huge effort- same as in the Calais area (Welcome is a wonderful film about that situation). The tourism industry in Lampedusa has practicall come to an end- due to the refugee situation, creating huge resentment by locals. We stayed in several locations in Western Sicily, and the locals made it clear they didn't want their own tourism industry to be 'blighted'- some of their comments were truly shocking.

The Italian Government announced a few days ago they will no longer patrol the waters between Africa and Italy- as they feel that the many rescues are encouraging more to come. Their spokesperson said the other day something to the effect that 'yes they will die in large numbers, but we won't see them'. Certainly not an easy situation in that part of the Med.
My friend is also feeling like Italy is under some sort of "siege", or assault. It is hard to argue with her on this subject, it is her country and she feels that way. On the other hand I cannot blame anyone for trying to escape a war zone or poverty either. (neither she, actually)
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  #111  
Old 07.11.2014, 23:36
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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The problem is, in order to move the refugees back to Italy, Switzerland needs guarantees by Italy for their proper accomodation, plus of proper education in the case of kids. Since Italy has no interest of taking them back Switzerland will have to wait for at least half an eternity for valid guarantees to arrive.

Dublin accord, at least as far as Italy/Switzerland are concerned, has been invalidated (german article) by the european court on human rights a few days ago.

I am against a legalistic approach. Switzerland does NOT need any such guarantees to shift refugees back to the port-of-entry
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  #112  
Old 08.11.2014, 06:34
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

There is a story brewing that I am folowing, a Swiss registered ship has rescued refugees from certain death, maritime law says that the ship on open sea is subject to the laws of the ship´s flag, Switzerland, meaning that they are on Swiss territory and could claim asylum, Switzerland wants to dump them on Italy and it seems that Italy is politly telling them to go and take a swim, already CH-poiticians are getting into the act trying to weasel out of responsability.
I await the outcome with baited breath.
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  #113  
Old 08.11.2014, 08:21
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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There is a story brewing that I am folowing, a Swiss registered ship has rescued refugees from certain death, maritime law says that the ship on open sea is subject to the laws of the ship´s flag, Switzerland, meaning that they are on Swiss territory and could claim asylum, Switzerland wants to dump them on Italy and it seems that Italy is politly telling them to go and take a swim, already CH-poiticians are getting into the act trying to weasel out of responsability.
I await the outcome with baited breath.

Be careful of your breath being baited, could go very wrong and you may catch something which can't easily afterwards be abated.
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  #114  
Old 08.11.2014, 09:07
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

Schegen allows passport checks within a certain area from the border. French custom agents, for example, do random car checks when crossing to Italy on the Mont Blanc tunnel. Italians do the same, and both countries are both Schengen as well as EU? As per tickets, railroad police can enforce ticketing.
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Old 08.11.2014, 09:09
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

Campione d'Italia doesn't have a direct link to Domodossola! As a matter of fact it doesn't even have a railroad station!
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Old 08.11.2014, 10:03
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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There is a story brewing that I am folowing, a Swiss registered ship has rescued refugees from certain death, maritime law says that the ship on open sea is subject to the laws of the ship´s flag, Switzerland, meaning that they are on Swiss territory and could claim asylum, Switzerland wants to dump them on Italy and it seems that Italy is politly telling them to go and take a swim, already CH-poiticians are getting into the act trying to weasel out of responsability.
I await the outcome with baited breath.

In seaports, police of the country of the port has full Access to all ships.


On OPEN SEAS ships are subject to the laws of the ship s flag but NOT in the port. DURING FLIGHT, airplanes are subject to the country of the Airline but NOT so at the airport
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  #117  
Old 08.11.2014, 10:07
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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Schegen allows passport checks within a certain area from the border. French custom agents, for example, do random car checks when crossing to Italy on the Mont Blanc tunnel. Italians do the same, and both countries are both Schengen as well as EU? As per tickets, railroad police can enforce ticketing.

In ALL Schengen-countries, border Police can do random controls upto 20 kms away from the border, upto 20 kms away from Customs Airports/Heliports, upto 20 kms away from inter-regional rail-stations,


A practical example, the Heliport de Paris in Issy-les-Moulineaux is a Customs Airports, and so you can be controlled on the parking lot
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  #118  
Old 08.11.2014, 10:08
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

the only worry you have at Campione is the Guardia di Finanza looking out for Italians loaded with cash. I've never seen a Swiss car stopped there.
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  #119  
Old 08.11.2014, 10:32
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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Campione d'Italia doesn't have a direct link to Domodossola! As a matter of fact it doesn't even have a railroad station!

They have


Uhrzeit Verkehrsmittel Richtung/Zwischenhalte und ZeitenGleis/Haltestelle08:40
Bus 439Lugano, Al Forte
Campione, Casino 08:40 - Campione, Debarcadero (I) 08:41 - Bissone, Arco di Campione 08:42 - Bissone, autostrada 08:45 ? Melide, Stazione 08:47 - Paradiso, Piscina 08:49 - Paradiso, Debarcadero 08:52 - Lugano, Piazza Rezzonico 08:52 - Lugano, Piazza Manzoni 08:55 - Lugano, Al Forte 08:56 täglich 09:40
Bus 439Lugano, Al Forte
Campione, Casino 09:40 - Campione, Debarcadero (I) 09:41 - Bissone, Arco di Campione 09:42 - Bissone, autostrada 09:45 ? Melide, Stazione 09:47 - Paradiso, Piscina 09:49 - Paradiso, Debarcadero 09:52 - Lugano, Piazza Rezzonico 09:52 - Lugano, Piazza Manzoni 09:55 - Lugano, Al Forte 09:56 Mo - Sa, nicht 1., 15. Aug, 1. Nov, 8. Dez 09:47
BAT 7Ponte Tresa SNL
Campione 09:47 - Melide Swissminiatur 09:57 - Brusino Arsizio Funivia 10:12 - Morcote SNL 10:20 - Figino SNL 10:35 - Caslano SNL 10:48 - Ponte Tresa (Italia) SNL 11:04 - Ponte Tresa SNL 11:06 23. Jul bis 23. Okt 2011 täglich Campione10:40
Bus 439Lugano, Al Forte
Campione, Casino 10:40 - Campione, Debarcadero (I) 10:41 - Bissone, Arco di Campione 10:42 - Bissone, autostrada 10:45 ? Melide, Stazione 10:47 - Paradiso, Piscina 10:49 - Paradiso, Debarcadero 10:52 - Lugano, Piazza Rezzonico 10:52 - Lugano, Piazza Manzoni 10:55 - Lugano, Al Forte 10:56 täglich 11:40
Bus 439Lugano, Al Forte
Campione, Casino 11:40 - Campione, Debarcadero (I) 11:41 - Bissone, Arco di Campione 11:42 - Bissone, autostrada 11:45 ? Melide, Stazione 11:47 - Paradiso, Piscina 11:49 - Paradiso, Debarcadero 11:52 - Lugano, Piazza Rezzonico 11:52 - Lugano, Piazza Manzoni 11:55 - Lugano, Al Forte 11:56 Mo - Sa, nicht 1., 15. Aug, 1. Nov, 8. Dez

the buslink to Lugano
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  #120  
Old 08.11.2014, 20:52
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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I am against a legalistic approach. Switzerland does NOT need any such guarantees to shift refugees back to the port-of-entry
I think completely the same, but that's irrelevant here. CH subjected itself to the court. Not that it has any means to enforce the verdict, but Italy will gladly help them out.
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