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Old 23.10.2014, 15:57
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Swiss Border Controls

It has been reported that Swiss Customs officials are asking to see the passports of all passengers on trains from Italy. I understand this action by the Swiss customs or border authorities to be a breach the Schengen Agreement and the domestic law implementing it. Many people were subject to a passport or immigration check (not merely a check to see if you are importing goods and paying appropriate dutes, which they are entitled to do). Neither a police officer or a customs officer has the legal right to force a person to pay a ticket under threat of detention. By making this threat the customs officer abused her/his power.
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:05
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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It has been reported that Swiss Customs officials are asking to see the passports of all passengers on trains from Italy. I understand this action by the Swiss customs or border authorities to be a breach the Schengen Agreement and the domestic law implementing it. Many people were subject to a passport or immigration check (not merely a check to see if you are importing goods and paying appropriate dutes, which they are entitled to do). Neither a police officer or a customs officer has the legal right to force a person to pay a ticket under threat of detention. By making this threat the customs officer abused her/his power.
Where?
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:06
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

Link please? Local customs officers, or rather those who are Border Police, here regularly board the train in Pontarlier and check passengers' papers. I am not sure if they are allowed to systematically check everybody- but they are allowed, as far as I understand, and will check with them, anyone they suspect of not being from the EU. As many immigrants from non EU countries, come here via France or italy- they have a right to check, I believe.
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:17
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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It has been reported that Swiss Customs officials are asking to see the passports of all passengers on trains from Italy. I understand this action by the Swiss customs or border authorities to be a breach the Schengen Agreement
Why? That simply says that you don't need a passport to cross borders, but doesn't stop officials from asking for it if you have one, or some other acceptable form of ID if you don't.
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:18
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

http://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifie...345/index.html
http://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifie...083/index.html
http://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifie...319/index.html
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l14514_en.htm
http://www.solothurnerzeitung.ch/sol...cher-127425385

No, does link are not here to support OPs view.
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:22
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

The Schengen Accords and the Swiss implementing legislation state that only customs inspections may be undertaken, not passport control. Border guards don't have the right to enforce traffic tickets. They cannot even enforce fines, although they could refer someone to a court which, if it provides due process, could enforce a fine.
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:26
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

What "traffic ticket" are you jibbering on about?
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:37
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

I thought it is normal to check passports once in a while...don't know what ticket you are talking about...do we need another special ticket to travel...one is not enough...?
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:39
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

You need a ticket, it's the law.
You need to pay surcharge if you have no ticket, it's the law.
If you do not pay the surcharge you have to leave the train, it's the law.
If you have no valid ticket you have to show your ID, it's the law.
If the police knows somebody breaks the law, they can check ID, it's the law.
You need to follow police procedures, it's the law.
Not following all of the above is a misdemeanour.
The police MUST arrest a person which just committed a misdemeanor, it's the law.
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:42
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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You need a ticket, it's the law.
You need to pay surcharge if you have no ticket, it's the law.
If you do not pay the surcharge you have to leave the train, it's the law.
If you have no valid ticket you have to show your ID, it's the law.
If the police knows somebody breaks the law, they can check ID, it's the law.
You need to follow police procedures, it's the law.
Not following all of the above is a misdemeanour.
The police MUST arrest a person which just committed a misdemeanor, it's the law.
I don't know about others, but I would not travel between countries without a valid train or bus ticket and without valid papers like passport or ID or permit. So don't know why the big deal that border control wants to check papers.
I might be missing something...?
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:42
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

If border controls are not allowed to check passports then why am I advised to carry my passport with me AND my Swiss visa? If no-one is allowed to check them?

I once drove into Germany with an expired Schengen visa (in the old days) and got fined 100 Euros at the border post - because the man stopped me and asked for identification.

You sound like you are not in favour of control of illegal immigrants working their way up from Italy after their boat trip?
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:44
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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Neither a police officer or a customs officer has the legal right to force a person to pay a ticket under threat of detention. By making this threat the customs officer abused her/his power.

If you do not have a ticket you have to pay, if you do not pay, they ask you for ID to send the bill at home. I never heard about threats!
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:47
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

What happened after you explained them the legal situation and refused to show them any identification?
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:48
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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Border guards don't have the right to enforce traffic tickets.
Swiss border guards, unlike Italian border guards, are also police, and Swiss police have the right and duty to enforce all Swiss laws, and have the right to ask for ID at any time, for any reason.

Tom
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:52
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

Yes, just checked with someone who knows. They are not Customs officers on the trains, but Border Guards, who have even more powers than normal State Police. They do not need to justify their decision to check.

Could you try and be a bit clearer though, I realise you are Italian and English is not your language. Do you mean to say that you didn't have a valid train ticket- and the Border Guard asked for your ticket and then forced you to buy one? They could have asked you to leave the train or send you back to italy if the border was crossed already.
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:54
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

You assume I had not the ticket.. Plus, it is not not the point I am rematking:

The law is clear: Swiss customs officials they do not have the right.
First, that Swiss customs officials do not have the right to carry out passport controls. According to the Schengen Accords these are to be carried out at the first point of entry into 'Schengenland' by immigration officials. Of course, customs officials can ask for identification if they have grounds to suspect someone of committing a crime against the customs laws.

Swiss customs officials have no right to enforce fines. They can levy fines but only courts can enforce the fines after providing due process.
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:56
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

Yeah, this does sound like a "I did something wrong, got caught and now want to blame someone" type thread.

Luckily, they do tend to get godwinned pretty quickly. Let's see
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:57
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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The law is clear: Swiss customs officials they do not have the right.
As has been pointed out, they are NOT simply customs officials, they are also POLICE, and police in Switzerland can ask anyone anywher for ID at any time for any reason (or not).

Got it now?

Tom
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:58
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

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You assume I had not the ticket.. Plus, it is not not the point I am rematking:

The law is clear: Swiss customs officials they do not have the right.
First, that Swiss customs officials do not have the right to carry out passport controls. According to the Schengen Accords these are to be carried out at the first point of entry into 'Schengenland' by immigration officials. Of course, customs officials can ask for identification if they have grounds to suspect someone of committing a crime against the customs laws.

Swiss customs officials have no right to enforce fines. They can levy fines but only courts can enforce the fines after providing due process.
From what you have posted so far, the point you are making is:

My forum name is Ttt, and I'm a complete twonk.
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Old 23.10.2014, 16:58
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Re: Swiss Border Controls

OP- so...you got caught without a ticket and you don't want to pay the fine or what? If someone threatened you then you have to make a complaint and prove it.... As you seem to accentuate the threat issue. Just pay the fine!

Last edited by princessduck; 23.10.2014 at 17:13.
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