Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #141  
Old 16.01.2015, 12:09
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,400
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,576 Times in 6,201 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Do you have any proof of this? Or would you be happy to just hypnotize the whole world, or beat them into submission until everyone agrees with it?

I suppose if you would just kill off anybody who does not agree with it, then the whole world would agree with it. At that point you might have a religion of peace and unity. Would that make you happy?
In mathematics you can say with certainty that one rational number is greater than another.

But when it comes to political regimes, what is the measure?

One country may be richer than another, another may be happier, a third may have more holidays and a fourth may have cheaper beer.

Which of these countries is better? Is that not a personal question?

This is why the world ought to be a pluralistic place. This gives us the opportunity to compare the performance of different systems and to learn from them their methods or to reject them. A unified world state is the wet dream of statists as it removes that element of comparison (and ultimately competition) because you just have to believe that the government is trying as hard as it can and that all problems you have are unavoidable and necessary. Any attempt to establish an international rule of law (other than to protect some of the most basic rights) should be resisted.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #142  
Old 16.01.2015, 12:49
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
In fact leaders of islam were also leaders of war from the very beginning including Muhammed and the caliphs. They conquered half the world. The homeland of islam is the least tolerant country on earth. So who is fooling anyone with this islam is about piece and tolerance? But weirdly this seems to work. Erdogan came up with idea of islamophobia and western media accepted this. Turkey like most muslim countries has eradicated its christian population.

In the small city Kreuzlingen Switzerland 23% of pupils were muslim in 2009 (http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/14310228). So it seems we're only a couple of generations away from becoming a muslim country. Looking at any muslim country, I'm not looking forward to this. You can call this phobia or racism. I would call it common sense and self preservation.
I think the Quran is worth a read through to get some understanding and context. I'm surprised at how many Muslims are unwilling or unable to cite it as a source for discussion. I'm not sure if Muslims are allowed to openly discuss it.

As for storyline, it chronicles the military conquest of polytheists in Mecca. A major theme was the economic oppression of early Muslims by the polytheists, and the justification for liberation. Eerily, this parallels many of the realities of Muslims today. The extremists and jihadists of today are using the Quran and Islam for their liberation from perceived victimization by the West, representing the polytheists. They are using it as a manual for liberation and global conquest, and have so stated that is their intent.

The Quran also shows some beautiful concepts of charity, peace, brotherhood and unity amongst Muslims. For the vast majority of Muslims today with some degree of affluence, this is their expression of Islam. They are not in Jihad mode, and would like to spread peace and unity throughout the world through Dawa. So for them, they assert it is a religion of peace. In their circumstances, I suppose one can accept it as true.

It is a little disingenuous to say one is the real Islam, and the other does not represent Islam. When terrorists attack and shock, the quick response is to distance oneself, and claim those aren't real Muslims and does not represent Islam. But both of these are circumstantial applications of the same Islam.

I don't see how it is anti-Islamic nor Islamophobic to point out these attributes when it is written in the Quran. Denying it denies a known attribute of Islam. I understand it is politically inconvenient. But is not a burden placed on it by those who point it out when it is true. I think it would be more of an injustice to Islam to be untruthful about it.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #143  
Old 16.01.2015, 13:48
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 559
Groaned at 12 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 193 Times in 135 Posts
minimimi is considered knowledgeableminimimi is considered knowledgeableminimimi is considered knowledgeable
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I think the Quran is worth a read through to get some understanding and context. I'm surprised at how many Muslims are unwilling or unable to cite it as a source for discussion. I'm not sure if Muslims are allowed to openly discuss it.
I definitely agree Muslims should read Quran. Actually I am many times surprised that many Muslims are more keen on reading books about Islam than Quran itself. Unfortunately, in some Muslim-majority contries, e.g. Pakistan, huge number of people are illiterate and unable to read Quran among other books...

And yes, it is allowed to discuss it. Quran itself calls upon people to think.

The first revealed verse of Quran is "read in the name of God"

A downside is that translations are just translations and its original language is not used any longer (like Latin, though some parts of the Arab world have it closer). But there are multiple translations. Sometimes I read 10 different translations to understand a verse better if one translation seems to me out of space.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank minimimi for this useful post:
  #144  
Old 16.01.2015, 13:56
JonnyLaRock!'s Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 498
Groaned at 116 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 543 Times in 262 Posts
JonnyLaRock! has a reputation beyond reputeJonnyLaRock! has a reputation beyond reputeJonnyLaRock! has a reputation beyond reputeJonnyLaRock! has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Phos is correct, I once tackled a christian minister on the subject of the Amalekites and the Biblical justification of genocide. And his response was 'Ah but that was during a time of war, so its ok'

So basically the 'thou shalt not kill' commandment has the interpreted addendum 'another Jew' 'but you can if its war'.

Basically you can use the same quote chopped up or divided to mean what ever you want it to mean - this appears to be a recurring theme in all the Abrahamic religions.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank JonnyLaRock! for this useful post:
  #145  
Old 16.01.2015, 14:07
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,400
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,576 Times in 6,201 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post

So basically the 'thou shalt not kill' commandment has the interpreted addendum 'another Jew' 'but you can if its war'.
There are lots of debates precisely about such things as "thou shalt not kill" and some people are saying that there has been a mis-translation from the Greek or Hebrew and it should really be "thou shalt not murder".

Sometimes words can be more ambiguous in one language than in another, and sometimes in living languages too, meanings will develop and change. Modern Hebrew is not the Hebrew of Moses. Modern Arabic is not the Arabic of Mohammed.

Remember that even that most landmark and unassailable of bibles, the King James Bible, was translated by the king's decree and that he had his inspectors look over the shoulders of the translators to make sure none of the errors went in a direction that didn't suit the king or might go against his position.

Thus when you look at a religion, interpretations of the present day ministers and faithful are more important than what some old texts say or seem to be saying. What value is a Koran quote condemning something when it is being done neverthless?
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 16.01.2015, 14:55
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,970
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,005 Times in 1,780 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Basically you can use the same quote chopped up or divided to mean what ever you want it to mean - this appears to be a recurring theme in all the Abrahamic religions.
the only thing philosophically significant about any of the Abrahamic religions is the Christian concept of forgiveness, which differs in very important ways from Judaism. I say this, of course, knowing that the Christian concept of forgiveness was utterly perverted by the Catholic Church and remains perverted to this day. but at least in terms of the development of western philosophical thought, the Christian concept of forgiveness represented a quantum leap forward from Judaism.

from a purely philosophical perspective, at least in terms of western thought, Islam represented a significant step backwards, especially with respect to the issue of forgiveness (again, recognizing that even the Christian concept has long since been perverted and was certainly perverted at the time of the rise of Islam). in fact, if you look solely at the manner in which forgiveness is handled (or meant to be handled) in each of the 3 religions, it explains at least part of the fundamental disconnects we are seeing in so many places around the world.

I don't say any of this to suggest that Christian thought is any better than any other, since I think all organized religion is the root cause of every single tragedy and horror man has committed against his fellow man in the last 2,000+ years.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #147  
Old 16.01.2015, 15:16
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Engelberg & near Basel
Posts: 5,855
Groaned at 167 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,886 Times in 3,980 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
In mathematics you can say with certainty that one rational number is greater than another.
You can say it, but I doubt very much if any of us can prove it. It's one of the Axioms on which mathematics is based, and one could take it that we only accept it as a 'fact' because it's never been proved wrong and it's worked well for the past few thousand years. And also, of course, the very definition of 'rational number' is dependent on the same Axiom.

But to some people the existence of their god is also Axiomatic, even if that's only because they choose to ignore (or don't have access to) all of the arguments against it.

True, there aren't actually many arguments against the maths, but it;s still, for the vast majority of the Human population, a belief, rather than a fact. The difference between the two standpoints is that one of them has _always_ been shown to work, whereas the other one _usually_ has been shown not to work.
__________________
Introduce yourself!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Ace1 for this useful post:
  #148  
Old 16.01.2015, 15:17
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 559
Groaned at 12 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 193 Times in 135 Posts
minimimi is considered knowledgeableminimimi is considered knowledgeableminimimi is considered knowledgeable
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
the only thing philosophically significant about any of the Abrahamic religions is the Christian concept of forgiveness, which differs in very important ways from Judaism. I say this, of course, knowing that the Christian concept of forgiveness was utterly perverted by the Catholic Church and remains perverted to this day. but at least in terms of the development of western philosophical thought, the Christian concept of forgiveness represented a quantum leap forward from Judaism.

from a purely philosophical perspective, at least in terms of western thought, Islam represented a significant step backwards, especially with respect to the issue of forgiveness (again, recognizing that even the Christian concept has long since been perverted and was certainly perverted at the time of the rise of Islam). in fact, if you look solely at the manner in which forgiveness is handled (or meant to be handled) in each of the 3 religions, it explains at least part of the fundamental disconnects we are seeing in so many places around the world.

I don't say any of this to suggest that Christian thought is any better than any other, since I think all organized religion is the root cause of every single tragedy and horror man has committed against his fellow man in the last 2,000+ years.
I don't think that the Christian concept of forgiveness is some step forwards as compared to other Abrahamic religions.

In Islam you are given right for equal way of answering back (tooth for tooth, as in other Abrahamic religions) but is stated that forgiveness better.

On the other hand there is the concept of justice. One should seek justice both for himself and others who are mistreated. If someone steals tax money, you should not be fine with it

Besides tones of atheist people or people from any group commit numerous crimes that makes stating religion as root cause is weird. Human nature is a more likely source from my perspective.
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 16.01.2015, 15:25
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,970
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,005 Times in 1,780 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I don't think that the Christian concept of forgiveness is some step forwards as compared to other Abrahamic religions.

In Islam you are given right for equal way of answering back (tooth for tooth, as in other Abrahamic religions) but is stated that forgiveness better.

On the other hand there is the concept of justice. One should seek justice both for himself and others who are mistreated. If someone steals tax money, you should not be fine with it

Besides tones of atheist people or people from any group commit numerous crimes that makes stating religion as root cause is weird. Human nature is a more likely source from my perspective.
sorry, but you clearly have little to no understanding of fundamental Christian belief with respect to the issue of forgiveness. "tooth for a tooth" comes from Judaism, and was later adopted in some form or another by the Catholic Church (which is one reason why I suggested that the Catholic Church had perverted the concept entirely) but it is wholly inconsistent with underlying Christian philosophy. and again, I speak here of philosophy, not practice and certainly not the corruption and perversion of philosophical thought under organized religion.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #150  
Old 16.01.2015, 15:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,101
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 6,059 Times in 3,274 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I don't think that the Christian concept of forgiveness is some step forwards as compared to other Abrahamic religions.
.
So you say "Turn your other cheek" is not a huge step forward?

Every religion you mentioned has a potential in itself to be either good, or bad.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #151  
Old 16.01.2015, 15:30
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,049
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,166 Times in 5,749 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post

Besides tones of atheist people or people from any group commit numerous crimes that makes stating religion as root cause is weird. Human nature is a more likely source from my perspective.
I'd agree with that.

In a similar fashion to impressionable young criminals becoming hardened and more knowledgeable criminals after a stint inside, young impressionable thugs become extremist with violent tendencies after a stint with die-hard extremists.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #152  
Old 16.01.2015, 15:58
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Besides tones of atheist people or people from any group commit numerous crimes that makes stating religion as root cause is weird. Human nature is a more likely source from my perspective.
There are precedents in the Quran and the Hadiths that model the behaviors of Islamist thugs of today, which they state they follow. You can argue that Islamist thugs should not be apply those verses in their context today. But that is an argument you would have to make with them. As for what ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Qaeda and others do today, I would love to hear more of how Islam and the Quran should be preventing them rather than encouraging them. I haven't truly heard a solid rebuttal to them. Lots of sentimental ones, but nothing concrete in principle. Any thoughts on these?

I don't really want to offend by quoting verses and what have you.

Last edited by Phos; 16.01.2015 at 16:16.
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:53
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 559
Groaned at 12 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 193 Times in 135 Posts
minimimi is considered knowledgeableminimimi is considered knowledgeableminimimi is considered knowledgeable
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
There are precedents in the Quran and the Hadiths that model the behaviors of Islamist thugs of today, which they state they follow. You can argue that Islamist thugs should not be apply those verses in their context today. But that is an argument you would have to make with them. As for what ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Qaeda and others do today, I would love to hear more of how Islam and the Quran should be preventing them rather than encouraging them. I haven't truly heard a solid rebuttal to them. Lots of sentimental ones, but nothing concrete in principle. Any thoughts on these?

I don't really want to offend by quoting verses and what have you.
in Quran it is stated that killing one person is like killing all people. If groups you stated are killing people who meant no harm to them, which they seem to do, the Quranic sentence for murder is death.

Freedom to religion is stated in Quran: there is no compulsion in religion.

I have no idea what you want, I believe you can educate yourself if you wanted to, so no need for me...
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:57
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 559
Groaned at 12 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 193 Times in 135 Posts
minimimi is considered knowledgeableminimimi is considered knowledgeableminimimi is considered knowledgeable
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
So you say "Turn your other cheek" is not a huge step forward?

Every religion you mentioned has a potential in itself to be either good, or bad.
I think that if one sees it as a requirement it goes against justice and fairness. It is good to forgive and mean well. But you should not allow one person's well intentions to be taken as weakness. One should not allow repetition of crimes against himself and people around him.
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 16.01.2015, 17:39
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,970
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,005 Times in 1,780 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
But you should not allow one person's well intentions to be taken as weakness.
and therein lies 99.9% of the problem, though I suspect you did not intend to so succinctly highlight it.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #156  
Old 16.01.2015, 17:48
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
According to news reports, Pope Francis said Thursday there are limits to freedom of expression, especially when it insults or ridicules someone’s faith.
Well of course the Pope would believe that.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #157  
Old 16.01.2015, 18:14
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 3,653
Groaned at 79 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 5,767 Times in 2,126 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
in Quran it is stated that killing one person is like killing all people. If groups you stated are killing people who meant no harm to them, which they seem to do, the Quranic sentence for murder is death.

Freedom to religion is stated in Quran: there is no compulsion in religion.

I have no idea what you want, I believe you can educate yourself if you wanted to, so no need for me...
Yes, maybe but doesn't that apply only to the Umma? Us wicked infidels seem to be pretty fair game
4:89 "so take no friends from unbelievers until they flee submit to Islam. But if they turn renegades, seize them and kill them wherever ye find them"
Sounds straightforward to me.
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 16.01.2015, 18:30
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 559
Groaned at 12 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 193 Times in 135 Posts
minimimi is considered knowledgeableminimimi is considered knowledgeableminimimi is considered knowledgeable
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Yes, maybe but doesn't that apply only to the Umma? Us wicked infidels seem to be pretty fair game
no it does not apply only to umma. if it did apply only to umma, it would have been stated so and not be referred to as all of humankind.

Quote:
View Post
4:89 "so take no friends from unbelievers until they flee submit to Islam. But if they turn renegades, seize them and kill them wherever ye find them"
Sounds straightforward to me.
so can't find something else? this is a specific verse for a number of guys (three if I remember correctly) when they said they accepted Islam and next day said they did not in order ridicule, i.e. their leaving Islam was intended beforehand. i guess this is something written in most of commentaries of Quran anyway.

Anyways, throughout history Muslim armies did conquer many places (should they have conquered is another question, I guess it was just a political thing), including Mecca, and communities there were not murdered. They were free to practice Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc.

There have been instance like what is happening in Iraq right now when some people do decide to kill other. But usually that was not the case. I see that in middle ages Christians had more religious freedom in Middle East than Muslims in Europe for example. A further example is Jerusalem under rule of different sides.

What I want to say, if what you were quoting was indeed as you seem to understand, there would not have been 10% Christian population in Egypt today. Muslims left in Spain (inquisition?) and Hungary were completely eradicated even though I am not aware that of any indication that Christianity orders killing of non-Christians. Just want to give the other side of the coin.
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 16.01.2015, 18:42
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Minimimi, I appreciate you spending the time to responds to these. I'm not sure it is always helps to compare with Christianity though. I'm not really interested in making claims of one is better than the other. I would like to understand better though various Muslim perspectives. Christianity has a tradition on expounding on what it believes, called Apologetics. Maybe take it as they have a lot to apologize about. I'm not aware of many Muslim apologetics, and am interested in explanations. i think there is a general lack of awareness of it in the west.

Christianity has the same problems of taking scripture out of context, and using it to justify a particular purpose, oftentimes something atrocious.

Question about the Muslims who misuse and commit atrocities. Misguided or ignorant as they might be, are they also considered part of the Ummah?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #160  
Old 16.01.2015, 18:58
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 386
Groaned at 8 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 236 Times in 122 Posts
Andreas Stofer is considered knowledgeableAndreas Stofer is considered knowledgeableAndreas Stofer is considered knowledgeable
Re: Should Islam become a recognized church of the State in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
JonnyLaRock!

You are right islam is a totalitarian regime but a perfect one

That is a very important question. And i did claim islam has the best system so i will try to help us get the correct answer.
Why would any muslim seek this perfect system in a christian country like Switzerland? Surely a place like Jemen, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan or any other muslim country, I think there're about 50 of them, would be much closer to your version of paradise? When Europe becomes part of this great muslim world where will all the muslim asylum seekers go to? The US? Greenland? What happens to all those Europeans who happen to disagree?
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Andreas Stofer for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
religion, state church




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'Independent' / 'State' Church Dore_84 Daily life 1 27.10.2013 22:37
Is the British BA Degree recognized in Switzerland ? andy.swiss Employment 12 18.06.2010 16:08
Islam and Ron Paul: Should Switzerland ban green cheese from Glarus, oder? Dougal's Breakfast General off-topic 4 13.11.2009 00:07
Should English be the 5th language of Switzerland? vwild1 Swiss politics/news 84 12.03.2009 15:54
Should Switzerland stay out of the EU? the_old_vase Swiss politics/news 10 18.02.2007 22:08


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0