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  #21  
Old 21.01.2015, 18:04
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

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The above it not really true.... in US where this is legal they don't noticed any major number of people being addicted than before.

On the other hand they have noticed crime decrease and huge earning plus additional number of jobs which this business created.

This doesn't really make sense. If consumption didn't rise, how were more jobs created? Maybe some people moved their business from the illegal into the legal sector, but that's not really the same as creating jobs.
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Old 21.01.2015, 18:18
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

Maybe consumption was high enough already?
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  #23  
Old 21.01.2015, 18:36
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

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This doesn't really make sense. If consumption didn't rise, how were more jobs created? Maybe some people moved their business from the illegal into the legal sector, but that's not really the same as creating jobs.
Jobs were probably created in the non-production fields ie, quality control, administration, distribution, logistics, regulation etc.

And moving from illegal to legal sector does create jobs in the legal sector, its just that these jobs are already taken. It does, however, allow taxation.

depends what you mean by creating jobs, i spose.
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  #24  
Old 21.01.2015, 18:55
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

It wasn't so long ago that a loophole allowed Headshops to sell weed as long as it wasn't sold to smoke, i.e as bath salts. I know from friends that worked in some of these Headshops that once the loophole was closed the kantons and police sought to prosecute, not just the owners, but anyone who worked in the Headshops. It sounded quite unfair.

Saying weed is not dangerous is quite contentious, I know a lot of people who suffer mental health issues as a result of smoking weed, particularly hydroponic dutch varieties. Saying that I am all for legislation at least the government can then monitor the problem and give public health warnings it will also help to keep the kids away from dealers who sell other sorts of drugs.

Switzerland has no antismoking campaigns at all and tobacco is a far worse substance to ingest then a bit of weed.
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  #25  
Old 21.01.2015, 19:07
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

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Saying weed is not dangerous is quite contentious, I know a lot of people who suffer mental health issues as a result of smoking weed, particularly hydroponic dutch varieties. Saying that I am all for legislation at least the government can then monitor the problem and give public health warnings it will also help to keep the kids away from dealers who sell other sorts of drugs.
I knew a guy who had some issues. He was unable to socialize, suffered from sudden bouts of aggression, had totally unrealistic views on what was required of him and what he could require of others, and was unable to hold down even the most menial of jobs. He never admitted to anything ever being his fault, always coming up with reasons why others were to blame. He also smoked a lot of weed, although I don't know if this aggravated the situation or was a pre-existing problem. He was in his 60ies and boasted he had smoked it for all of his life. So much for weed making people laid-back. He one day shot himself through the brain while high and miraculously survived but in a further debilitated condition.
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  #26  
Old 21.01.2015, 19:16
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

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Jobs were probably created in the non-production fields ie, quality control, administration, distribution, logistics, regulation etc.

And moving from illegal to legal sector does create jobs in the legal sector, its just that these jobs are already taken. It does, however, allow taxation.

depends what you mean by creating jobs, i spose.
Is there much quality control and regulation in place? I thought the law basically says you can posess it and use it and stops there. Just imagine the situation the police might be in if they stop somebody with some grass on them and they struggle to find out whether or not it has been though quality control and whether they can lock the guy up if it hasn't. No, I can't see that somehow.

The cynic in me says this is all about taxation and has nothing to do with freedom.
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  #27  
Old 21.01.2015, 19:30
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

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Because cannabis cannot cause accidents?

Cannabis drivers 'twice as likely to cause car crash'
That is the headline of the article ..... but the last paragraphs say this:

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The researchers conclude that despite the increased risk posed by cannabis to car drivers, alcohol remains the substance most often present in crashes.

The observed association between alcohol and crash risk is more significant than that for cannabis, the study says. Unquote

From my own experiences with smokers of weed .... they seem to be rendered immobile and prefer not to drive (in fact not to move at all! Except to eat )
And those that do (have to) drive are so paranoid they drive extra carefully.

From these same experiences I have observed that people who ONLY smoke weed and abstain completely from alcohol seem to function okay.
Mixing alcohol and weed is what causes stupidity, agression, accidents, bad health (similar to alcoholism) and general mayhem.

And I do not approve of the intensive cultivations that are done in Europe (the stuff grown under special lights/in attics/hybrids/etc - the stuff grown and consumed here would appear to be a form of "brain poison" - too strong. Not a natural product.
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  #28  
Old 21.01.2015, 19:48
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

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Mixing alcohol and weed is what causes stupidity, agression, accidents, bad health (similar to alcoholism) and general mayhem.

And I do not approve of the intensive cultivations that are done in Europe (the stuff grown under special lights/in attics/hybrids/etc - the stuff grown and consumed here would appear to be a form of "brain poison" - too strong. Not a natural product.

Right on both counts.

Last paragraph is what has been noticed in the change since the 1960/70s, when more natural lighter product smoked.

Last couple of decades has seen the problems with this other stuff that is grown in intensive cultivation etc and mixed with whatever.
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  #29  
Old 21.01.2015, 22:35
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

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Actually cannabis is not that addictive at all,
Actually, it can be addictive. But then, just about anything can be addictive.


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A very good friend of mine in Michigan operates a state licensed marijuana cooperative farm. I disagree legal weed is not as good as illegal stuff.
Do you know if THC % is controlled?


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And I do not approve of the intensive cultivations that are done in Europe (the stuff grown under special lights/in attics/hybrids/etc - the stuff grown and consumed here would appear to be a form of "brain poison" - too strong. Not a natural product.
They are now reaching 37% THC content through indoor cultivation. They are natural, but I suppose can be dangerous for someone not expecting it. As I recall, laws in Switzerland differentiated at high THC levels. I don't remember the exact threshold, but I think they tolerate low %5 or %7 THC content, and control the more potent strains more stringently.



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This doesn't really make sense. If consumption didn't rise, how were more jobs created? Maybe some people moved their business from the illegal into the legal sector, but that's not really the same as creating jobs.
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Jobs were probably created in the non-production fields ie, quality control, administration, distribution, logistics, regulation etc.
A lot of venture capital is now getting into the industry. Some innovations are taking place. For example; edibles, oils for eCigarette Vaporizers, lotions, etc.

So, about the economic gains of legalizing weed, I wonder if estimates factor in lost of productivity due to, like, wasting time by; talking slower than normal, digging in too deep into subjects more than is needed, staring into space, entertaining stupid ideas that suddenly look brilliant, forgetting what you were doing, sudden bursts of prolong laughter, sudden interests in all kinds of food that did not previously taste as good, searching for eyedrops, or sneaking away with someone for, you know, a little good time, and things like that?
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  #30  
Old 21.01.2015, 22:49
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

I think that eventually marijuana is going to become completely legal in most western countries. I suspect that notwithstanding the SVP's opposition, it will happen faster in Switzerland than in my country, but even here people are starting to wake up to the insanity of marijuana laws. I don't want to be on the road with somebody too high to drive, but drunk driving is more dangerous and we haven't brought back alcohol prohibition.

What's a lot harder to do is convincing people that the same laws prohibiting dangerous drugs---cocaine, heroine, meth, etc.---do a lot more harm than the drugs themselves.
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Old 21.01.2015, 22:54
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

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I think that eventually marijuana is going to become completely legal in most western countries. I suspect that notwithstanding the SVP's opposition, it will happen faster in Switzerland than in my country, but even here people are starting to wake up to the insanity of marijuana laws. I don't want to be on the road with somebody too high to drive, but drunk driving is more dangerous and we haven't brought back alcohol prohibition.

What's a lot harder to do is convincing people that the same laws prohibiting dangerous drugs---cocaine, heroine, meth, etc.---do a lot more harm than the drugs themselves.

I wonder what percentage of inmates in US prisons are convictions for marijuana related crimes.
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  #32  
Old 21.01.2015, 23:27
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

Voila.

(Number Of People Serving Time For Drug Offenses In US Prisons)
Federal: "Between 2001 and 2013, more than half of prisoners serving sentences of more than a year in federal facilities were convicted of drug offenses (table 15 and table 16). On September 30, 2013 (the end of the most recent fiscal year for which federal offense data were available), 98,200 inmates (51% of the federal prison population) were imprisoned for possession, trafficking, or other drug crimes."

State: "Drug offenders comprised 16% (210,200 inmates) of the total state prison population in 2012. Twenty-five percent of female prisoners were serving time for drug offenses, compared to 15% of male prisoners. Similar proportions of white, black, and Hispanic offenders were convicted of drug and public-order crimes."

Source: Carson, E. Ann. Prisoners In 2013. Washington, DC: US Dept of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics, Sept. 2014, NCJ247282. Federal data: p. 16; state data: p. 15.
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5109
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p13.pdf
- See more at: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/pris....TvEzz5y3.dpuf
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  #33  
Old 21.01.2015, 23:29
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

here's in rational numbers

Total Federal Prisoners 2004 = 170,535
Total State Prisoners 2004 = 1,244,311

Percent of federal prisoners held for drug law violations = 55%
Percent of state prisoners held for drug law violations = 21%

Marijuana/hashish, Percent of federal drug offenders, 2004 = 12.4%
Marijuana/hashish, Percent of state drug offenders, 2004 = 12.7%

(Total prisoners x percent drug law) x percent marijuana = "marijuana prisoners"

Federal marijuana prisoners in 2004 = 11,630
State marijuana prisoners in 2004 = 33,186
Total federal and state marijuana prisoners in 2004 = 44,816

Note: These data only address people in prisons and thus exclude the 700,000+ offenders who may be in local jails because of a marijuana conviction.

Source: Mumola , Christopher J. and Karberg, Jennifer C., "Drug Use and Dependence, State and Federal Prisoners, 2004," Bureau of Justice Statistics (Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, January 2007) NCJ 213530, p. 4.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/dudsfp04.pdf
Harrison, Paige M. and Beck, Allan J., "Prisoners in 2004," Bureau of Justice Statistics, (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, October 2005), NCJ 210677, Table 1, page 2.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p04.pdf
- See more at: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/pris....TvEzz5y3.dpuf
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Old 22.01.2015, 00:42
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

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The case of the US is special due to fact that it's a federation. Every state has different laws, taxes etc. And the fact that weed is still illegal at federal level implies a lot of complications. In example - "weed entrepreneurs" are unable to open a bank account, cause banks are afraid of being accused of involvement in drug business. I think that, when they finally legalize it in entire country it's a matter of few years to establish a proper legislation. If something has been handled so badly through decades, there's no easy way to make it right.

By the way, have you seen this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7oF3N30rUc

Are you Aware where you are ?


Switzerland is a federation
every state has different laws and taxes


every state in Switzerland has its own parliament and ist own directly elected government




In many cases, things are allowed on the state-level even if not on the federal Level


In many cases, modern states can approve more modern laws than conservative states


In the Senate (Ständerat) the Conservatives are strong because also the small states have two seats


In the House (Nationalrat) the more modern and more populous states, the progressives are stronger because the number of seats depends on the number of population
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Old 22.01.2015, 01:03
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

Yes. I am aware. I have explained earlier what I meant. It was brachylogy, with no connection to Switzerland.
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Old 22.01.2015, 02:27
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

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Yes. I am aware. I have explained earlier what I meant. It was brachylogy, with no connection to Switzerland.

the connection to Switzerland is that Switzerland after the War of Secession in 1847 48 adopted a vast part of the USA constitution
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  #37  
Old 22.01.2015, 04:26
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

Driving after consuming Marijuana Way Less Dangerous than Alcohol

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
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  #38  
Old 22.01.2015, 07:05
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

I haven't got any scientific facts about weed, and don't really care one way or another, except insofar as it stinks and I don't want anyone who smokes it coming within 5 meters of me.

I do know, however, an awful lot of very smart kids in their 20s who smoke it. Maybe that says something.

Io the other hand, I don't know *any* people I consider above-average intelligence who smoke it in older population groups. Draw your own conclusions.
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Old 22.01.2015, 09:28
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

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I haven't got any scientific facts about weed, and don't really care one way or another, except insofar as it stinks and I don't want anyone who smokes it coming within 5 meters of me.

I do know, however, an awful lot of very smart kids in their 20s who smoke it. Maybe that says something.

Io the other hand, I don't know *any* people I consider above-average intelligence who smoke it in older population groups. Draw your own conclusions.
Yes, it says that kids in their twenties do stupid things. People come more risk-averse when they get older.
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Old 22.01.2015, 11:33
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Re: News about weed legalization in some CH cities

Marijuana should be banned for persons under the age of retirement.

Young people need their energy (and concentration) to suceed in life.

Old people should be able to bask in the sun and get happily stoned¨ while weaving baskets/knitting socks/ listening to Seargeants Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band.
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