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Old 25.02.2015, 11:57
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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No. An embassy is on the territory of the host country, although under the Vienna Convention, the local government or law enforcement has no right to enter without permission of the ambassador.
Correct. I am always amused when someone with street wisdom supposes that giving birth in an Embassy is relevant to a grant of nationality jus soli. Some few countries deem ships at sea and aircraft in the air as sovereign for that purpose (Ireland comes to mind, but they changed their Constitution and nationality law so it doesn't work anymore).

The status of Julian Assange shows the limits of territorial integrity of embassies: only if diplomatic relations were broken off would Assange be at risk of invasion by the police; and even then if a neutral company became protecting power (thus: the Swiss Embassies in Tehran and Havana for the USA) there would still be protection.

I was present at an embassy fire once: it was the Compound II US Embassy Housing in Seoul. Antoinette Blackburn's (the Ambassador's secretary) apartment caught fire. As I recall US military firefighters as well as local Seoul firefighters came to the rescue. Unfortunately Toni perished: http://www.geni.com/people/Antoinett...00000975892531 Consent to enter in such cases is mostly presumed.

Sometimes embassies are left in the care of a local guard. I remember a case -- I think it was either the US or UK embassy in Aden, South Yemen, where they lost track of the combination to the safe room and had to break in when diplomats returned. The State Department has professional safecrackers (they call them Foreign Service Security Technical Specialists) who know where to drill holes to get access. The Americans now use electronic safe locking mechanisms. I still have a promotional VHS tape given me by the sales force for "The X-07". It says that "nothing can go wrong", but they lied: I have known such a safe to freeze up and have to be drilled. Sorry for the digression but it still riles me more than 20 years later.

Here's a story of the New York police entering the Soviet consulate to rescue a nanny or tutor who sought asylum and was being held incommunicado http://www.ucpress.edu/content/chapters/11204.ch01.pdf Privileges and immunities are not sacrosanct in all cases.

Last edited by Potrzebie; 25.02.2015 at 12:14.
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  #42  
Old 25.02.2015, 12:04
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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Correct : sympathising with ISIS is not illegal.

However, It does puts them on the list of suspects.

The police handled this case well: checked that the flowers didn't conceal anything dangerous and let them lay them.
Actually most common flowers are dangerous. They typically contain tannins and cyanides and things and should not be mistaken for onions.

The golden wattle supposedly has 200 time higher THC levels than hemp, but it also contains so many other nasty things that nobody would want to smoke it.
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Old 25.02.2015, 12:09
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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I have been unable to find any recorded instance of a US Marine Security Guard firing his weapon against an intruder or attacker. Wikipedia has a list of attacks on US embassies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks...tic_facilities
It happened in the Bourne Identity. That makes it true.
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  #44  
Old 25.02.2015, 16:12
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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The police asked questions, then let them lay flowers.

IZRS are known provocators

You're a known provocateur.

Firstly, 20min? really? The Daily Mail of Switzerland. Well done.

Secondly, I like that you imply they support god knows who - they were doing a promotional film for a conference, not advertising ISIS. Nice try. God knows i don't agree with some of the wacky stuff they have said in the past, but lets not purposefully deceive people, yeah?

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I'm not sure that ridiculing a religious figure is the same as sympathizing with one of the worlds most heinous terrorist organization but I'll accept your claim.

Shall we go and lay flowers at their doorstep for all the victims of radical Islam, which they are happy to defend ?

At a flower each it would take fields the size of Holland.
That field would be thousands of times smaller then the field of flowers for those Muslims who have died trying to fight radical Islam. But i guess you don't really care about those Muslims.

Take your islamophobic racism and present it where it is welcome. It isnt here.
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Old 25.02.2015, 16:22
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

When you can't provide facts, blame the messenger.

If 20 min lied, please provide evidence - IZRS walked around with a flag very similar to ISIS, same way as racist right wing have flags which immediately remind the Nazi flag - and for a good reason: ISIS is a genocidal organization.

I said "Shall we go and lay flowers at their doorstep for all the victims of radical Islam" - these victims include Muslims. Muslims are, by far, the largest majority of Muslim radicals.

It's a tragedy that the Arab and Muslim world can't defeat ISIS and need external help.
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Old 25.02.2015, 16:48
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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Muslims are, by far, the largest majority of Muslim radicals.
Shocking.

Mulsim radicals ought to become more diverse and admit Christian, Jewish and Atheist members. I find it shocking that you have to be a Mulism to join. I think I will write to The Guardian.
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  #47  
Old 25.02.2015, 16:59
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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Shocking.

Mulsim radicals ought to become more diverse and admit Christian, Jewish and Atheist members. I find it shocking that you have to be a Mulism to join. I think I will write to The Guardian.
Of course, I meant to say "Muslims are, by far, the largest majority of Muslim radical's victims"
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  #48  
Old 25.02.2015, 17:08
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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When you can't provide facts, blame the messenger.

If 20 min lied, please provide evidence - IZRS walked around with a flag very similar to ISIS, same way as racist right wing have flags which immediately remind the Nazi flag - and for a good reason: ISIS is a genocidal organization.

I said "Shall we go and lay flowers at their doorstep for all the victims of radical Islam" - these victims include Muslims. Muslims are, by far, the largest majority of Muslim radicals.

It's a tragedy that the Arab and Muslim world can't defeat ISIS and need external help.
Just like the christian world defeated Nazism? What a stupid thing to say.

That flag that you mention? Its a plain black flag with the declaration of faith on it. Yes, it was a daft idea, but perhaps if more people were aware of whats actually on it, they wouldn't jump to silly conclusions like they support ISIS. I'm sure i don't need to bring up the swastika/svastika.

The greater tragedy is the stupidity that led to 'Operation Enduring Freedom' leaving behind a society where such an organisation could thrive. If the US/UK and their regional sponsors had even the slightest bit of sense, they would have realized what they were doing, and avoided it.

You don't blame ants for an ant infestation, you blame the person who left a trail of sugar.
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  #49  
Old 25.02.2015, 17:24
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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You're a known provocateur.

Firstly, 20min? really? The Daily Mail of Switzerland. Well done.

Secondly, I like that you imply they support god knows who - they were doing a promotional film for a conference, not advertising ISIS. Nice try. God knows i don't agree with some of the wacky stuff they have said in the past, but lets not purposefully deceive people, yeah?

That field would be thousands of times smaller then the field of flowers for those Muslims who have died trying to fight radical Islam. But i guess you don't really care about those Muslims.

Take your islamophobic racism and present it where it is welcome. It isnt here.
C'mon, man, you seriously can't be this dense. IZRS publishes almost nothing but propaganda and recruiting pieces for the "jihad" in Syria, among other things. The worst part of it being that the ones principally responsible for the actions of IZRS don't actually have family or heritage in Syria or anywhere else in the region, they are white-bred converts to the faith and pimp their version of the faith safely inside the protective confines of the Alps. Much, btw, like their peers in Germany.



Also, many of the Muslims dying in the middle east "trying to fight radical Islam" are actually dying in order to preserve their own form of radical Islam. Just because the Saudis, for example, are less radical than ISIS does not make them "not radical".
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Old 25.02.2015, 18:02
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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C'mon, man, you seriously can't be this dense. IZRS publishes almost nothing but propaganda and recruiting pieces for the "jihad" in Syria, among other things. The worst part of it being that the ones principally responsible for the actions of IZRS don't actually have family or heritage in Syria or anywhere else in the region, they are white-bred converts to the faith and pimp their version of the faith safely inside the protective confines of the Alps. Much, btw, like their peers in Germany.



Also, many of the Muslims dying in the middle east "trying to fight radical Islam" are actually dying in order to preserve their own form of radical Islam. Just because the Saudis, for example, are less radical than ISIS does not make them "not radical".
Saudi's aren't the ones dying.

Just to expand (was in a rush with the original post), can you give me an example of the ICCS recruiting for Syria? I must admit, this is news to me.
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Old 25.02.2015, 18:07
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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Just like the christian world defeated Nazism? What a stupid thing to say.

That flag that you mention? Its a plain black flag with the declaration of faith on it. Yes, it was a daft idea, but perhaps if more people were aware of whats actually on it, they wouldn't jump to silly conclusions like they support ISIS. I'm sure i don't need to bring up the swastika/svastika.

The greater tragedy is the stupidity that led to 'Operation Enduring Freedom' leaving behind a society where such an organisation could thrive. If the US/UK and their regional sponsors had even the slightest bit of sense, they would have realized what they were doing, and avoided it.

You don't blame ants for an ant infestation, you blame the person who left a trail of sugar.
ISIS is a side effect of the iraq war, not "Operation Enduring Freedom"

The Iraq removed a dictator brutally ruling warring tribes and expected that it would lead to democracy.

Silly indeed.

The same is "brute force vacuum" now happening in Syria, Yemen & Libya - the tragedy of the Arab world is far from it's end.

The Swastika is an ancient sign which the Nazis adopted, the same way ISIS is using the "declaration of faith"
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Old 25.02.2015, 18:18
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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ISIS is a side effect of the iraq war, not "Operation Enduring Freedom"

The Iraq removed a dictator brutally ruling warring tribes and expected that it would lead to democracy.

Silly indeed.

The same is "brute force vacuum" now happening in Syria, Yemen & Libya - the tragedy of the Arab world is far from it's end.

The Swastika is an ancient sign which the Nazis adopted, the same way ISIS is using the "declaration of faith"
I assume you mean 'The Iraq War'.
I mentioned that particular operation to highlight the irony that a war supposed to be for freedom has now placed the same region under the grips of a dictatorship. A dictatorship much worse then the one the people were supposedly rescued from.

There is plenty wrong with the Arab world, but lets not pretend ISIS is all their fault.

Regarding your swastika point...Should hindus no longer use the swastika, on the basis that to most, it means something very different than it does to hindus? Or would it be better better to educate people on the fact that the swastika is originally a symbol of peace, and remove some of the associated poison?
Should hindu's be afraid of being labelled nazis, for displaying a symbol thousands of years older then the Nazi party?

Of course not. They should be free to use their symbol for the original purpose.
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Old 25.02.2015, 18:18
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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Saudi's aren't the ones dying.
you think the rebels in Syria are moderate Muslims? have you seen the quotes out of Jordan after the death of the Jordanian pilot? did they strike you as moderate Muslims? what about Hezbollah? Hamas?



part of the problem is that we here in "the west" are surrounded by living, breathing and overwhelmingly moderate Muslims. we live, work and play with them, our kids go to school with them, and where I grew up outside of Detroit we even worshipped with them. we are, in fact, surrounded by what constitutes a significant part of the world's actual community of moderate Muslims. it is very difficult for us here in "the west" to actually comprehend the extent to which the moderate Muslims we know share any similarity of faith whatsoever with the lunatics in the middle east, because only in the past couple of years have we actually started to see some of that lunacy in our own communities - which is really, btw, what has us frightened.

walk through downtown Dubai, for example, which is about as "moderate" a place as you will find in the middle east, and let me know how many "moderate Muslims" you actually meet. same in Bahrain. hell, increasingly the same in Istanbul. sure, you will be able to enjoy drinks and dinner with other westerners, and you will also come across a number of visiting Muslims who now live and work in "the west", but the trend among the locals is decidedly not moderate.
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Old 25.02.2015, 18:19
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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Saudi's aren't the ones dying.

Just to expand (was in a rush with the original post), can you give me an example of the ICCS recruiting for Syria? I must admit, this is news to me.
Is your google broken again ?

Example 1

Example 2

IZRS is not doing Muslims any favours.

And straight from the horses mouth

Last edited by Pashosh; 25.02.2015 at 18:24. Reason: another examples
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Old 25.02.2015, 22:17
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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You don't blame ants for an ant infestation, you blame the person who left a trail of sugar.
This sentiment of blaming someone else, doesn't it prevent people from taking responsibility for themselves? What is the point of it, and what good does it do?
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Old 25.02.2015, 23:01
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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Is your google broken again ?

Example 1

Example 2

IZRS is not doing Muslims any favours.

And straight from the horses mouth

of course NOT. as most radical sects


And the Reporter was careful to mix up the various Opposition Groups, active in Syria

Last edited by Wollishofener; 26.02.2015 at 09:13.
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  #57  
Old 26.02.2015, 12:07
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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Is your google broken again ?

Example 1

Example 2

IZRS is not doing Muslims any favours.

And straight from the horses mouth
I prefer to let you do the work for me.

Example 1 - One person connected with ICCS went to a meeting on the turkish-syrian border with a group which was fighting against the Assad regime (a cause supported by several western governments). The article makes it clear that the group involved are Salafists (a tiny minority of the people ICCS represent, but well done you for stereotyping), and that there is no indication the guy (who does come across as a bit daft) knew about the atrocities being carried out by the group.

Do you have any proof that they are still working with each other?

Example 2 - the same story as the above, with the emphasis on that the guy went and took videos of the front. It also mentions that he distributed food to the needy.

And the article on the ICCS website? It talks about trying to understand why kids are being radicalized, and how to help them when they realize they've been brainwashed. I know you hate it because its islamic and you hate all things islamic, but here are the (poorly) translated quotes:

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Primarily, it is important to understand that young people often have a strong tendency to idealism. You want to prove yourself, help others, establish justice in the world, etc. Especially Muslim youth in the West know in these times, the huge tensions between societies and communities in which they grow up - often from the perspective of the victim. Be it in Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq, Central Africa or even Syria: Muslims are - and there's nothing good to talk - exposed massive repression worldwide. Also home raging Islamophobia: minaret, veil and headscarf ban, polemical media reports or discrimination in the housing and labor markets. No wonder, then, that the temptation must be huge to break out of this misery, yes, the Hijra, following the example of the Prophet (saas) to perform, and then in the promised "bilaad ash-Sham" (Syria) against the minions Asad and Justice to fight. It is from an Islamic perspective absolutely nothing to complain about. Such a conviction must be translated into the local context, high praise as moral courage.

But so apparently simple narratives from Facebook and Youtube can fade only for a short time the brutal reality of war on site. Soon, a teenager who had traveled will be clear that the war has nothing to do with the once glorified in the heated room Wunschträumerei, but a bitter hard long-term test with constant highs and lows. People are dying, others were wounded, leaving still indicate positive for devout Muslims along normative examples from the life of the Prophet (saas) and the moral rather than attenuates increases. But it is difficult when you are involved in internal struggles among the rebels. Muslims against Muslims. Yes, Sunnis against Sunnis. Or if suddenly their own moral claims require by unjust deeds in their own ranks a renewed reflection. But it can also be quite everyday reasons that make you want to return from Syria a traveler: medical problems, the desire to take out a training or longing for the family.

In a consideration of such a desire to return threatening legal action and a public bashing are, of course, contrary to some extent. Are the authorities once notified and the media informed, so the chances of a smooth return to the family are incomparably worse than if the parents gave up a publication or display.

This would suggest that concerned parents not hysterical behavior and the departure of the daughter - also applies to children - from the perspective of young people try to interpret.

It is important that they stay with their children in close contact and stand by their side, even if they choose a life which they themselves had not chosen for himself. A return to the first three months is very likely in many Syrian travelers, but not necessarily. In any case, parents should always keep children as all options open as possible and do not provoke undue attention. This is also true for the young runaways. Grosskotzige Facebook images with drawn weapons in Syria to help anyone and remember less of honesty and courage than on craving and delusion.
I don't agree with some of the language used, but the point of the article is that young people going to Syria usually want to return, and there is not much point in forcing them to stay there. Its similar to one of the threads on EF. Its not half as controversial as you make it out to be.

In summary, the ICCS is guilty of shooting itself in the foot and doesn't do itself any PR favors.

Another attempt to tar all Muslims with the terrorist brush.

Pashosh, i'm genuinely curious, what do you hate about them so much?
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Old 26.02.2015, 12:12
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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This sentiment of blaming someone else, doesn't it prevent people from taking responsibility for themselves? What is the point of it, and what good does it do?
Why have you only quoted that one sentence from my post?

The point the whole post was making was that claiming ISIS are responsible for the formation of ISIS, and ignoring all other factors, is naive and misguided. ISIS was and is the symptom, which developed because the original disease was not dealt with properly.

Its not a question of 'blame' and taking personal responsibility. People should, of course, take personal responsibility, but identifying the causes of ISIS does not, at all, detract from that.

What it does do, is allow us to identify the problem and gives us the ability to prevent its occurrence. It gives us the ability, but we still need to want to implement it.
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Old 26.02.2015, 12:29
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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And the article on the ICCS website? It talks about trying to understand why kids are being radicalized, and how to help them when they realize they've been brainwashed. I know you hate it because its islamic and you hate all things islamic, but here are the (poorly) translated quotes:
Again, c'mon man, I know your German isn't great but the link doesn't offer any guidance at all as to how to help brainwashed kids. All the link basically does is tell parents to relax, their kid is just experimenting a little and they will probably come back around if given the right time and space. And again, I think the woman who wrote the piece is from Uster. In all seriousness, WTF could she possibly actually know about the situation in Syria or what might drive a young person of Syrian heritage to travel to the country? The author's children are Swiss, the closest they might ever get to wanting to go to Syria is to attend a rally in Bern.

at its best, the IZRS is nothing more than your typical misguided, disaffected white kids latching on to a cause that arises out of the struggle of a peoples they have no actual connection to whatsoever because it gives them something to relate to. No different, really, then disaffected white kids in the US who latch on to some gangsta rap and think they are somehow sticking it to the man or changing the world. at its worst, however, the IZRS is facilitating the spread of propaganda, hatred and violence, all from the safety of a nifty office thousands of miles away from the actual problem.
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Old 26.02.2015, 12:53
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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....
Pashosh, i'm genuinely curious, what do you hate about them so much?
As the news clip said nad you agreed: IZRS supported Terrorists in Syria & tells parents whose kids decided to join these Terrorists "not to panic".

What a lovely organization. The police did well to check them when they tried to create another provocation.

My posts are based on available facts: if you find them racist, well - tough.
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