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  #61  
Old 26.02.2015, 13:55
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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ISIS was and is the symptom, which developed because the original disease was not dealt with properly.

Its not a question of 'blame' and taking personal responsibility. People should, of course, take personal responsibility, but identifying the causes of ISIS does not, at all, detract from that.

What it does do, is allow us to identify the problem and gives us the ability to prevent its occurrence. It gives us the ability, but we still need to want to implement it.
What is the original disease ?
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Old 26.02.2015, 14:31
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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What is the original disease ?
ditto


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The point the whole post was making was that claiming ISIS are responsible for the formation of ISIS, and ignoring all other factors, is naive and misguided. ISIS was and is the symptom, which developed because the original disease was not dealt with properly.
You can call everything a sympton.


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Its not a question of 'blame' and taking personal responsibility. People should, of course, take personal responsibility, but identifying the causes of ISIS does not, at all, detract from that.

What it does do, is allow us to identify the problem and gives us the ability to prevent its occurrence. It gives us the ability, but we still need to want to implement it.

Allow who to do what? Here's your chance to redeem that non-sensical statement. Explain and provide specifics.
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Old 26.02.2015, 15:46
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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What is the original disease ?
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ditto

You can call everything a sympton.

Allow who to do what? Here's your chance to redeem that non-sensical statement. Explain and provide specifics.
You don't know how ISIS started? I guess that wasnt important to learn.

The horrifically exclusive Iraqi government, which led to the disenfranchisement of millions of the Sunni population from the vast-majority-Shia government.

ISIS originally claimed to be supporting the Sunnis in Iraq, remember. Thats probably the biggest factor in their formation, and allowed them to go from a nebulous, intangible group to having thousands of fighters fighting under the same flag and controlling vast swathes of territory. The young Iraqi government had no (and still has no) idea how to stop them then and is still struggling now.

People believed that the only way to advance, to have any sort of real support, was to support a group that over-represented them, and were thus fooled into believing ISIS was that organisation.

The original symptom, was that the democratic government imposed on the people wasn't democratic. All it achieved was to further polarise an already polarised country.

I thought this was obvious but apparently not - It allows us to identify what is fueling ISIS, and therefore educates us on how to stop the spread of ISIS. I gives us the ability to prevent such an organisation developing in future, but only if we actually implement what we learned from this whole chapter of history.

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Again, c'mon man, I know your German isn't great but the link doesn't offer any guidance at all as to how to help brainwashed kids. All the link basically does is tell parents to relax, their kid is just experimenting a little and they will probably come back around if given the right time and space. And again, I think the woman who wrote the piece is from Uster. In all seriousness, WTF could she possibly actually know about the situation in Syria or what might drive a young person of Syrian heritage to travel to the country? The author's children are Swiss, the closest they might ever get to wanting to go to Syria is to attend a rally in Bern.

at its best, the IZRS is nothing more than your typical misguided, disaffected white kids latching on to a cause that arises out of the struggle of a peoples they have no actual connection to whatsoever because it gives them something to relate to. No different, really, then disaffected white kids in the US who latch on to some gangsta rap and think they are somehow sticking it to the man or changing the world. at its worst, however, the IZRS is facilitating the spread of propaganda, hatred and violence, all from the safety of a nifty office thousands of miles away from the actual problem.
that's a very simplistic way of looking at it. I said i dont like some of the language and this is what i meant - it offers a very simplistic way of looking at it. The underlying message of the article was that most kids who go there realize they were brainwashed, and want to return, most within the first three months.

You could say that she isn't Syrian so she doesn't know, but then that would apply to almost everyone outside of Syria. Its a bit disingenuous to say that because she isnt from there, and because she lives in Switzerland, she's talking nonsense.

You're right, it may well be populated by disaffected kids latching on to a cause. But then, if that's the case, why was such a furore caused when a few people went to lay flowers at an embassy?

Can you point me to where they advocate violence and hatred? Pashosh, would you mind?

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As the news clip said nad you agreed: IZRS supported Terrorists in Syria & tells parents whose kids decided to join these Terrorists "not to panic".

What a lovely organization. The police did well to check them when they tried to create another provocation.

My posts are based on available facts: if you find them racist, well - tough.
No they're not. Here again, we see exhibit 1: Pashosh misleading people.

The article suggests, in very clumsy language, that the kids who go realize they've been brainwashed only after they get there. Once that happens, if they know they cant return, they're trapped there, and therefore have no capability to desert ISIS. Whilst it is never good that they went there, deserting them once they go is counterproductive. The actual paragraph you are trying to distort is:

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This would suggest that concerned parents not hysterical behavior and the departure of the daughter - also applies to children - from the perspective of young people try to interpret.

It is important that they stay with their children in close contact and stand by their side, even if they choose a life which they themselves had not chosen for himself. A return to the first three months is very likely in many Syrian travelers, but not necessarily. In any case, parents should always keep children as all options open as possible and do not provoke undue attention. This is also true for the young runaways. Grosskotzige Facebook images with drawn weapons in Syria to help anyone and remember less of honesty and courage than on craving and delusion.
To a person who actually considers what they're saying, the message is that if your kid goes to Syria, don't brake off contact, don't disown them, and don't just descend into hysteria. Remain clam, and try to understand what it is that has brainwashed them. Only then can you convince them that they have made a mistake. Secondarily, that they have parents who want them to come home safe can be a big reason for most to desert ISIS, which i think we all agree is a good thing. If the kid believes they have no family left, and its impossible for them to return anyway, they wont leave, and they will stay with ISIS.

The article even says at the end that its an issue more of craving and delusion, rather then honesty and courage. If that is ISIS propaganda, it isn't very effective.

What you present is half the fact. The half that helps you peddle your narrow-minded, agenda-motivated nonsense.
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Old 26.02.2015, 16:01
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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You could say that she isn't Syrian so she doesn't know, but then that would apply to almost everyone outside of Syria. Its a bit disingenuous to say that because she isnt from there, and because she lives in Switzerland, she's talking nonsense.

Can you point me to where they advocate violence and hatred?
what is disingenuous is for someone not of Syrian heritage to pretend to give advice to the parents of children having Syrian heritage. particularly a white person born in just about the safest and most privileged country in the world. it's like a friend who was a member of the Nation of Islam once told me years ago - you might be pissed about something and at somebody, but you don't know the first effing thing about what it means to be black and so it's not possible for you to be pissed about the same thing and at the same people as me. Nora Illi can put on street clothes and be just another typical Swiss woman tomorrow, the parents of the children she is pretending to counsel can't. Nora Illi can tell those parents to relax and wait it out because her kids are never at risk of being seduced into traveling to Syria.

and I never said IZRS advocates violence and hatred, but rather that it facilitates it through its repeated publication of propaganda.
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Old 26.02.2015, 16:10
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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You don't know how ISIS started? I guess that wasnt important to learn.

The horrifically exclusive Iraqi government, which led to the disenfranchisement of millions of the Sunni population from the vast-majority-Shia government.

ISIS originally claimed to be supporting the Sunnis in Iraq, remember. Thats probably the biggest factor in their formation, and allowed them to go from a nebulous, intangible group to having thousands of fighters fighting under the same flag and controlling vast swathes of territory. The young Iraqi government had no (and still has no) idea how to stop them then and is still struggling now.

People believed that the only way to advance, to have any sort of real support, was to support a group that over-represented them, and were thus fooled into believing ISIS was that organisation.

The original symptom, was that the democratic government imposed on the people wasn't democratic. All it achieved was to further polarise an already polarised country.

I thought this was obvious but apparently not - It allows us to identify what is fueling ISIS, and therefore educates us on how to stop the spread of ISIS. I gives us the ability to prevent such an organisation developing in future, but only if we actually implement what we learned from this whole chapter of history.



that's a very simplistic way of looking at it. I said i dont like some of the language and this is what i meant - it offers a very simplistic way of looking at it. The underlying message of the article was that most kids who go there realize they were brainwashed, and want to return, most within the first three months.

You could say that she isn't Syrian so she doesn't know, but then that would apply to almost everyone outside of Syria. Its a bit disingenuous to say that because she isnt from there, and because she lives in Switzerland, she's talking nonsense.

You're right, it may well be populated by disaffected kids latching on to a cause. But then, if that's the case, why was such a furore caused when a few people went to lay flowers at an embassy?

Can you point me to where they advocate violence and hatred? Pashosh, would you mind?



No they're not. Here again, we see exhibit 1: Pashosh misleading people.

The article suggests, in very clumsy language, that the kids who go realize they've been brainwashed only after they get there. Once that happens, if they know they cant return, they're trapped there, and therefore have no capability to desert ISIS. Whilst it is never good that they went there, deserting them once they go is never good. The actual paragraph you are trying to distort is:



To a person who actually considers what they're saying, the message is that if your kid goes to Syria, don't brake off contact, don't disown them, and don't just descend into hysteria. Remain clam, and try to understand what it is that has brainwashed them. Only then can you convince them that they have made a mistake. Secondarily, that they have parents who want them to come home safe can be a big reason for most to desert ISIS, which i think we all agree is a good thing. If the kid believes they have no family left, and its impossible for them to return anyway, they wont leave, and they will stay with ISIS.

The article even says at the end that its an issue more of craving and delusion, rather then honesty and courage. If that is ISIS propaganda, it isn't very effective.
Thank you for our answer.

You basically say the ISIS is racist organization, which gained power by fooling people living in a non-democratic country.

I tend to agree with most, except: Arabs were not fooled, but ISIS brutality simply didn't matter to Iraqis and Syrians as they are used to this brutality from their previous rulers.

Isn't calling Arabs fools racist ?

Note what IZRS is saying (your quote): "It is important that they stay with their children in close contact and stand by their side, even if they choose a life which they themselves had not chosen for himself.[/B]"

Sorry - this is n't the kids deciding to go vegan, this are people who decided to join a genocidal organization. Any decent person would not "stand by their side"

From what I read, most Muslims in Switzerland see thru IZRS propaganda and don't support them. Why do you spend so much energy trying protect them ?
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  #66  
Old 26.02.2015, 16:35
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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You don't know how ISIS started? I guess that wasnt important to learn.

The horrifically exclusive Iraqi government, which led to the disenfranchisement of millions of the Sunni population from the vast-majority-Shia government.

ISIS originally claimed to be supporting the Sunnis in Iraq, remember. Thats probably the biggest factor in their formation, and allowed them to go from a nebulous, intangible group to having thousands of fighters fighting under the same flag and controlling vast swathes of territory. The young Iraqi government had no (and still has no) idea how to stop them then and is still struggling now.

People believed that the only way to advance, to have any sort of real support, was to support a group that over-represented them, and were thus fooled into believing ISIS was that organisation.

The original symptom, was that the democratic government imposed on the people wasn't democratic. All it achieved was to further polarise an already polarised country.

I thought this was obvious but apparently not - It allows us to identify what is fueling ISIS, and therefore educates us on how to stop the spread of ISIS. I gives us the ability to prevent such an organisation developing in future, but only if we actually implement what we learned from this whole chapter of history.
This explains the opportunity that ISIS exploited, which is common knowledge. It is still not the cause of the situation, it is the circumstances of today. In whatever course of events that could have or will take place, there is still exists that propensity towards this same general direction; whether through a socialist Baathist party, or an Islamic Theocracy such as ISIS. The difference here is that ISIS's Islamic Ideology has wide spread vertical appeal amongst Muslims worldwide, which is why they gravitate there.

Apart from the missed opportunities of the past, which is water under the bridge for all practical purpose, how does dissecting the situation of the recent past address the situation today? What does it allow us to do again? What was the cause, if not an opportunitistic ISIS? What exactly is your point again?

There is an elephant in the room.
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  #67  
Old 26.02.2015, 18:41
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

I don't know about the rest of you, but IZRS`s constant praise of Hamas is enough for me to put them on the heap of people I despise.
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Old 26.02.2015, 22:58
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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Thank you for our answer.

You basically say the ISIS is racist organization, which gained power by fooling people living in a non-democratic country.

I tend to agree with most, except: Arabs were not fooled, but ISIS brutality simply didn't matter to Iraqis and Syrians as they are used to this brutality from their previous rulers.

Isn't calling Arabs fools racist ?

Note what IZRS is saying (your quote): "It is important that they stay with their children in close contact and stand by their side, even if they choose a life which they themselves had not chosen for himself.[/B]"

Sorry - this is n't the kids deciding to go vegan, this are people who decided to join a genocidal organization. Any decent person would not "stand by their side"

From what I read, most Muslims in Switzerland see thru IZRS propaganda and don't support them. Why do you spend so much energy trying protect them ?

Calling Arabs fools is not just generalising, it is ANTI-SEMITIC
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Old 26.02.2015, 23:04
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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C'mon, man, you seriously can't be this dense. IZRS publishes almost nothing but propaganda and recruiting pieces for the "jihad" in Syria, among other things. The worst part of it being that the ones principally responsible for the actions of IZRS don't actually have family or heritage in Syria or anywhere else in the region, they are white-bred converts to the faith and pimp their version of the faith safely inside the protective confines of the Alps. Much, btw, like their peers in Germany.



Also, many of the Muslims dying in the middle east "trying to fight radical Islam" are actually dying in order to preserve their own form of radical Islam. Just because the Saudis, for example, are less radical than ISIS does not make them "not radical".

You correctly named the Saudis. BUT no other Arab government is in favour of radical Islam
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Old 26.02.2015, 23:16
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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When you can't provide facts, blame the messenger.

If 20 min lied, please provide evidence - IZRS walked around with a flag very similar to ISIS, same way as racist right wing have flags which immediately remind the Nazi flag - and for a good reason: ISIS is a genocidal organization.

I said "Shall we go and lay flowers at their doorstep for all the victims of radical Islam" - these victims include Muslims. Muslims are, by far, the largest majority of Muslim radicals.

It's a tragedy that the Arab and Muslim world can't defeat ISIS and need external help.

A) Arabs and Kurds ARE defeating ISIS
B( the IZRS -- ICCS is not representing anybody except themselves
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Old 27.02.2015, 14:10
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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Thank you for our answer.

You basically say the ISIS is racist organization, which gained power by fooling people living in a non-democratic country.

I tend to agree with most, except: Arabs were not fooled, but ISIS brutality simply didn't matter to Iraqis and Syrians as they are used to this brutality from their previous rulers.

Isn't calling Arabs fools racist ?

Note what IZRS is saying (your quote): "It is important that they stay with their children in close contact and stand by their side, even if they choose a life which they themselves had not chosen for himself.[/B]"

Sorry - this is n't the kids deciding to go vegan, this are people who decided to join a genocidal organization. Any decent person would not "stand by their side"

From what I read, most Muslims in Switzerland see thru IZRS propaganda and don't support them. Why do you spend so much energy trying protect them ?
The brutality they were probably used to, true. But they weren't used to someone actually fighting for them (recall that ISIS orignally fought along sunni/shia lines). Thats why most thought they could believe in ISIS.

You might take that to mean they should support the decision, but i take it differently.

To me, 'stand by their side' means to not desert them, and not to exclude them. The article doesn't say to support their decision, it suggests that the best way of bringing back someone who might have gone over to the edge, is to show them that they can still come back from said edge. Like i said, it is very clumsily worded, and more so considering it is a translation, but the whole article seems to offer advice to parents who's kids may have already gone, and who want them to return but don't know what to do. It does not read as one suggesting the kids have made the right decision at all, and goes so far as to literally say that they are deluded.

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This explains the opportunity that ISIS exploited, which is common knowledge. It is still not the cause of the situation, it is the circumstances of today. In whatever course of events that could have or will take place, there is still exists that propensity towards this same general direction; whether through a socialist Baathist party, or an Islamic Theocracy such as ISIS. The difference here is that ISIS's Islamic Ideology has wide spread vertical appeal amongst Muslims worldwide, which is why they gravitate there.

Apart from the missed opportunities of the past, which is water under the bridge for all practical purpose, how does dissecting the situation of the recent past address the situation today? What does it allow us to do again? What was the cause, if not an opportunitistic ISIS? What exactly is your point again?

There is an elephant in the room.
I disagree. The Iraqi government could have worked, though it would have required significant incentive to do so. There was a while (a short one, to be fair) during 2011 and 2012 when things seemed to be calming down, and when Iraq looked as though it was concluding that chapter of its history. It is only afterwards that the government became more and more exclusive, and the whole situation got worse and worse.

ISIS's ideology hasn't spread particularly far either. If that was the case, there wouldn't be so much false propaganda about it. What is different is that ISIS is the first large organisation of its kind to use social media, to blistering effect. The security forces here havent been particularly good at dealing with that. ISIS have used social media incredible well, even having recruiters based purely on social media. What appears to be a spreading of ideology, is more accurately described as having a wider recruitment sphere and skillfully employed propaganda distributed through social media. I doubt very much that those 16 year old girls, for example, are bent on world domination, but i do believe that through social media, ISIS were able to sell to them an image of utopia.


My point was that we can learn from history - if we choose to do so. Things like the ISIS surge have causes and factors which led to their manifestation. By understanding what caused ISIS, we understand those causes and factors, and therefore we can figure out how to stop them growing (by removing these factors) and we can prevent them from happening again. I cant see how you can misunderstand that.

Regarding your missed opportunities/water under the bridge comment...If we fail to learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it. Do you really want to be in this same position, talking about another version of ISIS 10 years from now? Hell, do you still want to be talking about ISIS 10 years from now?

When you treat a disease, you can treat the symptoms all day long, but if you don't treat the underlying cause of the disease, it just comes back stronger.

Elephants have long memories, apparently. Humans, on the other hand, and as displayed by what you said, don't even want to have memories.

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Old 27.02.2015, 14:31
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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I disagree. The Iraqi government could have worked, though it would have required significant incentive to do so. There was a while (a short one, to be fair) during 2011 and 2012 when things seemed to be calming down, and when Iraq looked as though it was concluding that chapter of its history. It is only afterwards that the government became more and more exclusive, and the whole situation got worse and worse.

ISIS's ideology hasn't spread particularly far either. If that was the case, there wouldn't be so much false propaganda about it. What is different is that ISIS is the first large organisation of its kind to use social media, to blistering effect. The security forces here havent been particularly good at dealing with that. ISIS have used social media incredible well, even having recruiters based purely on social media. What appears to be a spreading of ideology, is more accurately described as having a wider recruitment sphere and skillfully employed propaganda distributed through social media. I doubt very much that those 16 year old girls, for example, are bent on world domination, but i do believe that through social media, ISIS were able to sell to them an image of utopia.


My point was that we can learn from history - if we choose to do so. Things like the ISIS surge have causes and factors which led to their manifestation. By understanding what caused ISIS, we understand those causes and factors, and therefore we can figure out how to stop them growing (by removing these factors) and we can prevent them from happening again. I cant see how you can misunderstand that.

Regarding your missed opportunities/water under the bridge comment...If we fail to learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it. Do you really want to be in this same position, talking about another version of ISIS 10 years from now? Hell, do you still want to be talking about ISIS 10 years from now?

When you treat a disease, you can treat the symptoms all day long, but if you don't treat the underlying cause of the disease, it just comes back stronger.

Elephants have long memories, apparently. Humans, on the other hand, and as displayed by what you said, don't even want to have memories.
But who's fault is this though? We saw Maliki behaving like a jerk. He didn't want to listen, and clung to power. Tried to make sure the Shiites had the upper hand, and alienated the Sunni population. Over and over, he was told that he needed a coalition government that included the Sunnis. He was the leader of Iraq. Should he have been assassinated by someone outside of Iraq who knew better? Who is the "WE" in this, when this is a process of self-determination that Iraqis needed to undertake? Is that course of action not a result of Iraqi due process in itself? I'm not sure what was learned from this. Are you?
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Old 27.02.2015, 14:38
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

You are going to back to " Things like the ISIS surge have causes and factors which led to their manifestation. By understanding what caused ISIS, we understand those causes and factors, and therefore we can figure out how to stop them growing (by removing these factors) and we can prevent them from happening again."

according to you, this was disenfranchised Sunnis supported Islmo-fascist ISIS against the Iraqi government which wasn't democratic enough for them. Good use of social media helped them recruit.

How do you suggest we stop minorities across the middle east from copying ISIS: From the Saharawis to the Berbers, from Lebanese christians to Iranian Sunnis, there is no shortage of disenfranchised groups with access to social media.
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Old 27.02.2015, 17:33
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

A Reuters columnist writes that a reason the US intelligence agencies must rely on phone hacking is because they do not have enough spies and other sources of information. This part of the article is relevant to the suspicious way that the US government views Americans abroad:

"The best way to disrupt any organized criminal element is to get inside of it physically. But the U.S. government's counter-terrorism policies have made that next to impossible.

The FBI, for example, targets the very Arab-American and Muslim-American communities it needs to work with if it hopes to find and neutralize home-grown violent extremists."

In the past, Americans abroad were an important source of information for the US. That was before the US government decided to treat expats as criminals.

If an expat learns of suspicious activities, the Swiss police should be contacted. Perhaps some day the US will get the message - treat expats like citizens instead of criminals.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0VZ2BS20150225
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  #75  
Old 27.02.2015, 17:49
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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A Reuters columnist writes that a reason the US intelligence agencies must rely on phone hacking is because they do not have enough spies and other sources of information. This part of the article is relevant to the suspicious way that the US government views Americans abroad:

"The best way to disrupt any organized criminal element is to get inside of it physically. But the U.S. government's counter-terrorism policies have made that next to impossible.

The FBI, for example, targets the very Arab-American and Muslim-American communities it needs to work with if it hopes to find and neutralize home-grown violent extremists."

In the past, Americans abroad were an important source of information for the US. That was before the US government decided to treat expats as criminals.

If an expat learns of suspicious activities, the Swiss police should be contacted. Perhaps some day the US will get the message - treat expats like citizens instead of criminals.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0VZ2BS20150225

Don`t phone Homeland security , they run out of money
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  #76  
Old 14.04.2015, 14:05
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

SRF is reporting that some employees and sub-contractors of Protectas are convicted criminals (vorbestraft) and/or do not have Swiss weapon permits, although they are armed when guarding embassies in Bern. Protectas reportedly guards three to five embassies, including the US Embassy.

Protectas said in a statement that since its employees and sub-contractors are on embassy property they are not subject to the laws of Switzerland. A Protectas sub-contractor confided that he carried his weapon home in the evening, although he did not have a weapon permit, and so was in violation of Swiss law.

http://www.srf.ch/konsum/themen/arbe...eitsdienst-ein

http://www.publiccontractors.com/Pro...A/2713041.html
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Old 19.05.2015, 16:53
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

I'm sure that the U.S. government treats expats living abroad in Switzerland like criminals...until those same people owe the U.S. government taxes, then we are treated just like any other American...give the USA money or else!!!

As a professional, I resent the exorbitant amounts I owe in student debt and taxes, especially when those same debts amount to zero money being earned or spent in the USA. I owe student loans why? I owe taxes why? Oh yeah, so that I can't work in the USA or receive any public services in the USA like ambulance, fire, medical, police, or anything else. Weird.

I believe the States (please feel free to disagree) is the only developed nation that requires it's citizens to continue to pay taxes even while living and working abroad. If an American tries to get rid of their citizenship, they'll have to pay for that, too.

Don't get me wrong: I am SO GRATEFUL to have been born and raised in the USA. I am SO GRATEFUL to be fluent in English, the language of business and to have any and every opportunity to see other wonderful European countries and mix and mingle with the Swiss people. I love it in Switzerland.

I just wish I wasn't embarrassed sometimes to admit that I am an American. I am ashamed of our international policies concerning taxation, debt, and any kind of financial relief. Our people work hard every single day to make our nation proud and to stand up for the very American freedoms and laws that hold our very selves back both professionally and personally.

Okay, end of rant.
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Old 19.05.2015, 17:09
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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You are going to back to " Things like the ISIS surge have causes and factors which led to their manifestation. By understanding what caused ISIS, we understand those causes and factors, and therefore we can figure out how to stop them growing (by removing these factors) and we can prevent them from happening again."

according to you, this was disenfranchised Sunnis supported Islmo-fascist ISIS against the Iraqi government which wasn't democratic enough for them. Good use of social media helped them recruit.

How do you suggest we stop minorities across the middle east from copying ISIS: From the Saharawis to the Berbers, from Lebanese christians to Iranian Sunnis, there is no shortage of disenfranchised groups with access to social media.
So interesting.....hmmmm....okay, two step long term plan: first, we provide incentives to these groups of "minorities across the middle east" by letting these groups of people have access to basic mental and physical health care, basic housing, food, and water. All of these basic needs should be provided to every single American citizen whether living in the United States or living in the Middle East.

Second, once these "middle eastern minority groups" are enjoying the basic needs (and human rights, ahem, pay attention America) that we provide them, we allow those same men and women that before did not have these basic needs met to have further basic needs met (pay attention U.S. politicians and lawmakers) including higher education, professional high paid careers with only one catch: each man, woman, and child MUST drop their loyalties and middle eastern citizenship so that they may enjoy all the basic needs and higher basic needs that the USA can offer it's citizens, especially to the younger generations of middle eastern minorities that follow American social media.

With enough women and children following in the footsteps of international human rights models, the USA will surely succeed in bringing not only a higher level of satisfaction and happiness among Americans and Middle Easterners alike, but will also achieve it's basic principles of freedom and law that are afforded even the most impoverished of United States citizens.

Then, third, we elect a black woman president, insist on these basic human rights continuing into the future, and take our rightful place in history as the nation that came back to it's senses even in the face of hardship and adversity, even after ill afforded war and persecution, even after slavery and marriage rights being afforded to all men and women regardless of sexual orientation, even after our economy routinely broke down and our health care system functionally collapsed, etc. etc.

Okay, it's really a three part plan with multiple sub-parts, but what do expect from an American expat?
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Old 19.05.2015, 17:41
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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I believe the States (please feel free to disagree) is the only developed nation that requires it's citizens to continue to pay taxes even while living and working abroad. If an American tries to get rid of their citizenship, they'll have to pay for that, too.
Meanwhile, corporate income is booked overseas, never repatriated into the US, and is tax free. The double standard peeves me. Why can they allow individuals to incorporate the same way, and have the same benefit?
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Old 19.05.2015, 18:24
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Re: US Embassy calls the cops

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To me, 'stand by their side' means to not desert them, and not to exclude them. The article doesn't say to support their decision, it suggests that the best way of bringing back someone who might have gone over to the edge, is to show them that they can still come back from said edge. Like i said, it is very clumsily worded, and more so considering it is a translation, but the whole article seems to offer advice to parents who's kids may have already gone, and who want them to return but don't know what to do. It does not read as one suggesting the kids have made the right decision at all, and goes so far as to literally say that they are deluded.
stand by them? are you effing serious? they go there, fight, kill, rape kids, burn others alive for fun, or at least have full dosage of their mates doing all this and much more. if they should be forgiven their crimes, then all murderers, rapists and similar bunch should be forgiven too.

there are no kids coming back, only variation of broken, destroyed human beings with minimal hope of saving. very small percentage of them could possibly integrate back, with unknown risk of snapping back to postal/jihad mode if any sh*t hits the fan in their lives (or world politics, which seems a constant state of lately).

I don't care how old they are, age is no excuse when facing consequences of choices in life. we all pay for our mistakes, be it 2 or 82 year old ones. they made their voluntary choice to become mass murderers and more, with all info possible out there, upon reach for few clicks/taps on phone. let's save resources for those who can actually contribute back to humanity, not take away from it bit by bit, till not much is left.

and what to do with these - let them burn there. it's very sad, but they are outside civilization. i don't believe there is a way back for them.
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