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Old 10.04.2015, 17:24
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Question about “Conseil municipal” elections system in Geneva.

Hi,

I lived in Switzerland 8 years and now have right to vote on community level. I have some difficulty to understand how systems works.

The official booklet says:

“Election au système proportionnel. Les Conseiller municipaux sont élus au système proportionnel. La répartition des sièges se fait en deux temps : le pourcentage de suffrages obtenus par chaque liste détermine le nombre de sièges auquel celle-ci a droit. Ensuite, les sièges sont attribués, au sein de la liste, aux candidats ayant obtenu le plus grand nombre de suffrages nominatifs. Pour être représentée au Conseil municipal, une liste doit atteindre un seuil électoral (quorum) de 7 % des suffrages valables.”


So far so good, now imagine community has 20 seats in Conseil municipal. And voting bulletin has 4 pages of political parties and their candidates :

LPR, 10 names in the list
MCG, 5 names in the list
PDC, 8 names in the list
Les Verts, 7 names in the list.

Imagine everybody voted by choosing one page and without crossing out any individual names and results as:

LPR – 75 % of votes
MCG - 12 % of votes
PDC - 8 % of votes
Verts - 5 % of votes

So,

- how many seats exactly each party will get in “Conseil municipal” ?


- what happens when one party gets more seats than it has names in its list ? I believe in scenario above LPR will get more than 10 seats - who takes remaining seats ?

Thank you for your answers
Rustem

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Old 12.04.2015, 00:25
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Re: Question about “Conseil municipal” elections system in Geneva.

I'm unfamiliar with Geneva voting procedures, but the way I understand the description it works the same as federal parliamentary votes, which is what I describe here.

Seats are distributed among the various lists according to their share of all votes, so a party that gets 23% of all votes gets 23% of all available seats. A vote for a candidate automatically also give a vote to the list he's proposed on, while empty spots on a list that names a party give a vote to that party only, not to any one candidate. The party ranks its candidates according to the number of votes each candidate got individually, more votes gets higher priority. The party distributes the seats until all have been used up, in case of surplus seats (in your example the 75% get 15 seats) it will look for additional "candidates" (usually within its own ranks) after the vote to fill them with.

Usually, at least with the big parties, "list" is synonymous with "party", a candidate vote automatically gives also a vote to his party.

However, multiple parties can group up on one single list, in this case every candidate vote counts for that list/group. Computing the number of seats for those parties requires an additional step, but for the voting itself you can pretend for that shared list to make one single (temporary) party and safely ignore the details - this is also what I do in this post, except in this paragraph: I don't differentiate between "party" and "list that contains more than one parties".

As for filling out the list/form:

You can pick any list, including the empty one, and adjust to your liking, provided you follow these rules:
- everything must be written by hand
- no obscenities, insults, propaganda etc
- a list must contain at least one candidate name
- you may strike thru preprinted candidates, and either leave the spot blank or replace with any other candidate
- any and all candidate names can be used to fill an empty list place, whatever their party, e.g. you can place LCG candidates on the LPR list
- any one candidate can be voted for up to two times. If you vote for him/her thrice or more those surplus votes will be ignored, these list places will be considered empty (see below)
- empty list spots give no candidate vote, but they do give a list vote provided the list name, or a list number, has been filled in the list head
- list name and number may be left blank, in which case you forfeit the party votes the empty spots (if any) give automatically. You may strike thru the list name and number of any preprinted list, and either leave it blank or fill one in

A list has a list number and a name. If you use the emtpy list and want to provide a list name it's useful to fill out the list number as well, similar applies to the candidates and their numbers (assuming they do have one).

When in doubt you can wait filling out part or the whole stuff and ask the people in the voting office, there will be at least two persons present and everybody will just love(!) to answer your questions, especially if they come from a foreigner
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Old 12.04.2015, 12:41
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Re: Question about “Conseil municipal” elections system in Geneva.

"When in doubt you can wait filling out part or the whole stuff and ask the people in the voting office, there will be at least two persons present and everybody will just love(!) to answer your questions"

Oh yes they will love to get their hands on a Voting Virgin.
Don't forget to pick up your free pen, toothbrush, key ring etc when you visit each partys stand.
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Old 13.04.2015, 04:21
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Re: Question about “Conseil municipal” elections system in Geneva.

Quote:
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"When in doubt you can wait filling out part or the whole stuff and ask the people in the voting office, there will be at least two persons present and everybody will just love(!) to answer your questions"

Oh yes they will love to get their hands on a Voting Virgin.
Don't forget to pick up your free pen, toothbrush, key ring etc when you visit each partys stand.

the parties also distribute apples, pears, sausages etc
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Old 16.04.2015, 14:30
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This link might help OP?

http://www.democracy-building.info/p...on-system.html

...I have a related question regarding the election of the executives of the municipal council. The election for the executive (mayor, etc) as opposed to the municipal council itself is based on the majority vote - 50 % for the first round and a simple majority (first past the post) in the second round.

One can vote for a list or use the neutral voting slip where you can fill in the names you want. I do not understand the utility of the "Liste" & "No" at the top of the neutral voting slip.

Since the vote for the executive is not list based but is in effect a vote for the individual, why do we have the "Liste" & "No" at the top of the neutral voting slip.

Of course one can leave it blank, but even if we do fill the party name and list number - is it not a fact that it is not counted?


Last edited by 3Wishes; 16.04.2015 at 15:43. Reason: merging posts after thread merge
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Old 16.04.2015, 23:40
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Re: Question about “Conseil municipal” elections system in Geneva.

Quote:
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This link might help OP?

http://www.democracy-building.info/p...on-system.html

...I have a related question regarding the election of the executives of the municipal council. The election for the executive (mayor, etc) as opposed to the municipal council itself is based on the majority vote - 50 % for the first round and a simple majority (first past the post) in the second round.
Usually correct.
But I seem to remember that there are a few exceptions (too lazy to veri/falsify, you'll nee to look that up yourself, e.g. Majorzwahl Schweiz).

Plus, replacement votes AFAIK (usuallly?) are proportional votes.

Quote:
One can vote for a list or use the neutral voting slip where you can fill in the names you want. I do not understand the utility of the "Liste" & "No" at the top of the neutral voting slip.

Since the vote for the executive is not list based but is in effect a vote for the individual, why do we have the "Liste" & "No" at the top of the neutral voting slip.

Of course one can leave it blank, but even if we do fill the party name and list number - is it not a fact that it is not counted?
Using list number and name for majority votes may simply be the pragmatic choice: that way only one form is needed for both types (all three if you count replacements separately). Elimination of an error source alone would seem to make it worth, and there's probably a tiny cost reduction, too.

And if a replacement vote were for more than one job at the same time (not sure if that ever happens) that may be yet another constellation where again the named list is OK to use.
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Old 27.04.2015, 12:22
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Re: Question about “Conseil municipal” elections system in Geneva.

Thank you for everybody for information, but it did not really answer my question.

But I asked other people and they provided more detailed answer (sorry, in French): http://www.ville-geneve.ch/index.php...id_detail=2930

So apparently, if party gets more seats than it has names in the voting list, the second round will be organized. This makes me think that results of vote are already, to big extend, known in advance – this explains why some parities have 20 names in their list and some only 3 and why second rounds are not taking place.


Rustem
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Old 28.04.2015, 10:50
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Re: Question about “Conseil municipal” elections system in Geneva.

Quote:
So apparently, if party gets more seats than it has names in the voting list, the second round will be organized.
That's not what the reply you linked says, not at all.

The surplus seats still "attach" to that list. The list/party with surplus seats has one month to add additional candidates to fill them.
"
les sièges appartiennent toujours à la liste et que celle-ci a un délai de un mois pour déposer une nouvelle candidature"

A candidate (both the new ones and those originally on the list) must have a certain number of supporters in order to be placeable on a list.
"
Ce nouveau candidat doit recueillir à nouveau les signatures requises (lorsqu'on dépose une liste, celle-ci doit être validée par un certain nombre de signatures)"

Plus, a majority of those originally on the list must consent, as evidenced by them signing, too
"
Et parmi ces signatures, il doit y avoir une majorité de personnes ayant appuyé la première liste dès le début."

If, and only if, that amended list as described above is not provided within a month, there will be a 2nd vote to distribute that surplus seat.
"
Si ce n'est pas le cas ou si le délai d'un mois est dépassé, une élection complémentaire est organisée pour réattribuer ce siège. "

So in short, the list/party with surplus seats will search (usually internally) for additional candidates to fill the surplus spots.

PS:
The voters in a swiss public poll by definition are anonymous. Signature, OTOH, is proof for a certain individuals support and makes that person identifiable (in practice it will be accomanied by name and address in easy readable form). Thus, signature can not refer to votes/voters in a public poll.
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Old 29.04.2015, 08:11
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Re: Question about “Conseil municipal” elections system in Geneva.

I do NOT quite see why you omit the Social Democrats
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