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  #21  
Old 03.08.2015, 22:49
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

HausAmSee

All good wishes to the lady, her family and friends.

This is unusual incident in Switzerland, changing times.

Hoping in time the lady makes recovery.
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  #22  
Old 03.08.2015, 22:58
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

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HausAmSee

All good wishes to the lady, her family and friends.

This is unusual incident in Switzerland, changing times.

Hoping in time the lady makes recovery.
Highly unlikely. Unfortunately.
Though, with advances in bionics it might be - at some point in the future.

The perp will end up confined in a cell, at some point. Not necessarily for his whole life.
The victim is now confined within her own body. For as long as she lives.
That's the tragedy.
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  #23  
Old 04.08.2015, 08:11
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

I live in luzern, its scary thinking that walking at night may lead to this. I feel my self preservation mechanism has been somewhat muted in Switzerland and then this...
How do they know he spoke broken German if the girl hasnt been able to speak to the Police? There are already auslander-hating posters around the place.
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  #24  
Old 04.08.2015, 09:26
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

Horrific attack, this woman's life ruined because another human couldn't suppress his desires.

And it won't go punished as one might think. Because the fall will be an "accident" in court, he never meant to cripple her, just have sex. And because of the situation the rapist had at home he'll no doubt serve some pathetically short sentence because violent crime doesn't seem to get maximum penalties in Switzerland. They save the the 15 year stuff for insider trading, tweaking the libor rates and cheating the state of taxes. Because theoretical numbers are so much more important than smashing up people's lives and dignity.
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  #25  
Old 04.08.2015, 10:01
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

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So shocked to read about this!!! Particularly in a country that we feel so safe about... May the girl get the strength to overcome the trauma and may the rapist be caught and get what he deserves!!!
Many rapists have been abused as children by people they trusted.

I would like rapists to "get what they deserve!!!". But unlike many people who know next to nothing about psychology I prefer to help rather than just dish out 50 lashes and be done with it.

What these people need is help. And before you dish out punishment in the extreme have a think about these rapists, many of whom have been on the recieving end at a very young age.

Who is the victim here? Both. One event happened many years ago so convieniently gets forgotten?

A member of my family was raped. The offenders history was examined and it was revealed that he was massively abused, foster families etc etc etc. in the end most of the family had to accept that the offender needed more help than the victim.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

And now I see a extreemely sick and disturbed red haired man about to get the revenge treatment from ignorant jurists who have allowed themselves to be filled with anger.
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  #26  
Old 04.08.2015, 10:02
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

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Horrific attack, this woman's life ruined because another human couldn't suppress his desires.

And it won't go punished as one might think. Because the fall will be an "accident" in court, he never meant to cripple her, just have sex. And because of the situation the rapist had at home he'll no doubt serve some pathetically short sentence because violent crime doesn't seem to get maximum penalties in Switzerland. They save the the 15 year stuff for insider trading, tweaking the libor rates and cheating the state of taxes. Because theoretical numbers are so much more important than smashing up people's lives and dignity.
Doesn't something like the "eggshell skull" rule apply here? I.e. If the victim had a particular physical weakness already, it's the perp's issue? Or that recklessness is sufficient as intention for cases of serious bodily harm?

The light sentencing here came up with a friend who was recently assaulted, but it's hard to get a feel from the penal code alone without hearing stories on how it is actually applied.
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  #27  
Old 04.08.2015, 10:31
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

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Many rapists have been abused as children by people they trusted.

I would like rapists to "get what they deserve!!!". But unlike many people who know next to nothing about psychology I prefer to help rather than just dish out 50 lashes and be done with it.
Yep. My initial reaction was: "If they could just beat him to pulp with a baseball-bat, that would be justice served".
But in addition to the argument you presented, it would probably put myself more or less on the same (moral) level as the rapist.
And of course, nothing of this helps the victim.
Nothing that is done to the rapist can make her walk again.
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  #28  
Old 04.08.2015, 10:46
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

Here's what the law says:

Art. 190
1
Wer eine Person weiblichen Geschlechts zur Duldung des Beischlafs
nötigt, namentlich indem er sie bedroht, Gewalt anwendet, sie unter
psychischen Druck setzt oder zum Widerstand unfähig macht, wird mit
Freiheitsstrafe von einem Jahr bis zu zehn Jahren bestraft.
2
...
171
3
Handelt der Täter grausam, verwendet er namentlich eine gefährliche
Waffe oder einen anderen gefährlichen Gegenstand, so ist die Strafe
Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter drei Jahren.
17

Summary: One to ten years for rape, aggravated rape not less than three years.
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  #29  
Old 04.08.2015, 11:52
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

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Here's what the law says:

Art. 190
1
Wer eine Person weiblichen Geschlechts zur Duldung des Beischlafs
nötigt, namentlich indem er sie bedroht, Gewalt anwendet, sie unter
psychischen Druck setzt oder zum Widerstand unfähig macht, wird mit
Freiheitsstrafe von einem Jahr bis zu zehn Jahren bestraft.
2
...
171
3
Handelt der Täter grausam, verwendet er namentlich eine gefährliche
Waffe oder einen anderen gefährlichen Gegenstand, so ist die Strafe
Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter drei Jahren.
17

Summary: One to ten years for rape, aggravated rape not less than three years.
what if he didn't rape her and just grabbed her head and and paralysed her during the attack? what sentence would he get for that?
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  #30  
Old 04.08.2015, 12:51
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

Wouldnt aggravated assault, etc charges be added to rape in this case?

In most countries the common practice is to find as many charges that can stick based on the state of the victim, and the sentences run consecutively.
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  #31  
Old 04.08.2015, 13:02
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

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Here's what the law says:
...
Summary: One to ten years for rape, aggravated rape not less than three years.
Thanks, I had seen that, the question was more whether the intention to rape would be "transferred" to the consequence (GBH). Regardless of the answer, it looks like GBH carries a maximum of 10 years anyway.

Here's the English (non-binding!) version of the penal code if anyone is interested. https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...083/index.html
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  #32  
Old 04.08.2015, 13:12
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

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Many rapists have been abused as children by people they trusted.

...

What these people need is help. And before you dish out punishment in the extreme have a think about these rapists, many of whom have been on the recieving end at a very young age.

...

And now I see a extreemely sick and disturbed red haired man about to get the revenge treatment from ignorant jurists who have allowed themselves to be filled with anger.
It is not just about punishment, it is for public protection also. It's clear that this man is dangerous. Whatever one's views are on the balance between puishment, deterrant, rehabilitation, etc. it is clear that not all criminals can be rehabilitated.

Don't get me wrong, I have empathy with these sad backgrounds and I can see why it makes it harder for people to make the right decisions. And I agree that ending the cycle of abuse is not achieved by imprisoning successive generations. But to rape is a decision, and I am sure he knew what he was doing was not just illegal but morally wrong.

I'd far rather a longer sentence with early release for good behaviour, which is much easier for the State than giving the convicted the benefit of the doubt upon sentencing and having him still be dangerous upon the expiry with no ability to extend.
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  #33  
Old 04.08.2015, 15:43
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

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Wouldnt aggravated assault, etc charges be added to rape in this case?

In most countries the common practice is to find as many charges that can stick based on the state of the victim, and the sentences run consecutively.
I'm only familiar with UK sentencing, and there separate sentences tend to run concurrently (with multple or aggrovated offenses attracting a higher tariff).

We don't have the 800 year sentences that, for example, the US does.

How does Switzerland sentence for multiple charges?
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  #34  
Old 04.08.2015, 16:16
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

On a positive note specialists have informed the family that they will know in 3 months if a partial or full recovery might be possible. They have said (at least) there is a chance.

And to add that the victim is a nurse herself for autistic people, hopefully the kind of strength she needs on a daily basis with regard to her career might be useful in order that she may again, one day, live a normal life.
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Old 05.08.2015, 15:41
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

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On a positive note specialists have informed the family that they will know in 3 months if a partial or full recovery might be possible. They have said (at least) there is a chance.

And to add that the victim is a nurse herself for autistic people, hopefully the kind of strength she needs on a daily basis with regard to her career might be useful in order that she may again, one day, live a normal life.

What did lead to the paralysis (Querschnitt-Lähmung) ? hardly the rape as such.This may not matter to the lawyers but to the doctors
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Old 05.08.2015, 16:39
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

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What did lead to the paralysis (Querschnitt-Lähmung) ? hardly the rape as such.This may not matter to the lawyers but to the doctors
I don't know this much at the moment.
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  #37  
Old 06.08.2015, 13:29
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

If you want to help the victim financially you can now by donating.

Spendenkonto zu Gunsten des Gewaltopfers von Emmen
Spendenkonto PC 60-147293-5
Schweizer Paraplegiker-Stiftung, 6207 Nottwil
Vermerk: Gewaltopfer von Emmen

http://www.paraplegiker-stiftung.ch/...den/spende.htm
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  #38  
Old 10.08.2015, 09:38
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

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While the description of the attack sounds absolutely horrifying, I would abstain from describing the attacker as a "monster".
It sort of de-humanizes him, which actually makes him look less guilty.
A monster is not something of this world, a mythological figure if you want.
The rapist is very much a figure of this world.

I just feel great sadness and sorry for the victim.

well, true - but on the other hand, you can just put down a monster and don't need to think about what to do with it (prison, therapy....).
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  #39  
Old 10.08.2015, 11:41
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

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well, true - but on the other hand, you can just put down a monster and don't need to think about what to do with it (prison, therapy....).
True.
But it's a slippery slope.
What exactly is a monster? Who decides that?
It's a slippery slope (and we've been down it before - it does never end well, remember?l).
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Old 10.08.2015, 12:01
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Re: Brutal rape in Emmen, Lucerne region...

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well, true - but on the other hand, you can just put down a monster [..].
That's exactly the problem.

Once you deny even one preson their basic rights they can be taken away from anybody and everybody, the process turns essentially arbitrary. People with birth defects or missing limbs, blacks, gays, heteros, inmates (extension of the three strike rule, for example), anybody can be declared to be put down.

We've been there before.
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