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Old 10.09.2015, 18:52
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Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

In today's news, Canton ZH will be spending almost 3 millions on suicide prevention. The money will be used for 18 projects between 2015 and 2018.

New website (only German, it seems)

Barriers etc. will be built at buildings, bridges and train tracks, the public informed, prevention increased and, among other things, pharmacies and doctor's offices will offer a card with emergency contact numbers for those in suicidal crises.

I'm glad this is happening, but one should always remember that not all suicides are "not well thought out, impulsive actions", and that the question "who has the right to let one die or not, or to hinder suicides" is a very hot topic. The discussion surrounding assisted suicide shows this very well IMO. While prevention is important, it is just as important to give those who have decided they want to commit suicide, and thought it through, an option to do so. Thus while the prevention measures are being ramped up, people should also be given the information they could need about assisted suicide organisations. I believe that, if assisted suicide organisations do their job well and don't just assist anyone who walks in their doors after 2 days without asking the necessary questions, but rather look into the case very carefully for months before assisting, and prevention is successful for those who really do not know what they are doing at the time of their deaths, things can improve in CH.

But if only prevention is ramped up and no information is given regarding methods of dying of one's own choice in as pain-free a way as possible, it isn't fair towards those who don't have access to EXIT etc. and know they don't want to live a life in misery, but now feel they have to due to options being reduced.


What do you think?

Edit: Forgot to mention that Sept 10 is International Suicide Prevention Day, so perhaps that's the reason this is in papers now.

Last edited by glowjupiter; 11.09.2015 at 12:43. Reason: clarification
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Old 11.09.2015, 09:12
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

I was hoping the money would be spent on counselling, not fencing off potential suicide spots. Switzerland has a high suicide rate as there is much pressure put on everyone to perform well within difficult situations.
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Old 11.09.2015, 11:02
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

Good. Suicide is the biggest killer of young men. Anything that can be done to reduce it is in my opinion a good thing. I don't know if there's anything in Switzerland that is similar to the Samaritans in the UK. This is probably the best charity there is.
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Old 11.09.2015, 11:29
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

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I don't know if there's anything in Switzerland that is similar to the Samaritans in the UK. This is probably the best charity there is.
Die Dargebotene Hand/ La Main Tendue

Dial 143.

https://www.143.ch
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Old 11.09.2015, 11:33
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

I think general awareness needs to increase, amongst employers, schools, colleges, parents etc.. I've seen work colleagues break down in tears from workload and stress, and when I speak to them its clear that they feel trapped and it affects their home life too.

Also this needs to be a federal as opposed to just a cantonal initiative.
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Old 11.09.2015, 11:56
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

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I was hoping the money would be spent on counselling, not fencing off potential suicide spots.
Totally agree with this Sbrinz- in a contry like Switzerland, there will always be cliffs to jump from, or rafters to hang from, etc, for anyone determined to die. You just can't go on putting barriers everywhere- it is just ridiculous.

As you posted the other day, a father jumped with his 2 children from a real beauty spot near me, Le Creux-du-Van, the most amazing limestone circle with the most magnificient views, wildlife and flowers- how could you fence that? And do you really think that if it was fenced he would have been deterred? However tragic it is, he would have found the other similar cliff in nearby France... or found another way. Horrible day yesterday in our village, as 1000s came for the funeral of a school friend, my age and the local plumber, just retired, who hanged himself in his home. He would have needed counselling on how to cope with retirement and feeling useless- should they have put a security gate to his attic? Physical barriers is a truly useless way to deal with suicide imho. Where I live there are cliffs everywhere- and lakes, trainlines, etc, etc - you just can't block or fence them all - just impossible.


Everyone in Switzerland has access to EXIT though, so not sure about this comment Glowjupiter- could you clarify? Thanks,

Last edited by Odile; 11.09.2015 at 12:07.
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Old 11.09.2015, 12:38
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

When some people make the decision to commit suicide, they are determined, and barriers won't stop them. Barriers could prevent those individuals who consider suicide impulsively. Maybe.

Far better to get at the root cause and help individual out of the desperation and depression, help eliminate feelings of worthlessness. That's the hard part.

Does EXIT help people who are despondent and want to commit suicide? I thought it was more for end of life decision making.
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Old 11.09.2015, 12:46
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

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When some people make the decision to commit suicide, they are determined, and barriers won't stop them. Barriers could prevent those individuals who consider suicide impulsively. Maybe.

Far better to get at the root cause and help individual out of the desperation and depression, help eliminate feelings of worthlessness. That's the hard part.

Does EXIT help people who are despondent and want to commit suicide? I thought it was more for end of life decision making.
The challenge is finding them in time.

IIRC some suicide "hot spots" (one I have heard of is near Dover) have notices (rather than barriers) giving details of helplines.

In addition to the barriers, putting up information on where to get help at these notices might help too.
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Old 11.09.2015, 13:21
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

Agreed Carlos. But your comment about signs re help maybe relevant in town, with railway bridges, etc. Going back to the Creux-du-Van for instance, as an example- in a nature reserve with the most amazing views, etc- it is 1400m wide by 200m height- so do you think it would help to post signs all along the ridge about suicide support? Same on every ridge in the Jura and the Alps?
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Old 11.09.2015, 13:35
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

Here's a lecture by Prof. Reisch on suicide prevention and methods in CH

Apparently back in the day barriers were the suggested option.

On a bridge in AR a phone was installed.

One thing I like is the "angels" on the Pont Bessière in Lausanne, something like that seems to really have the potential to help desperate people. Similar to Don Ritchie.

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Old 11.09.2015, 14:01
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

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Agreed Carlos. But your comment about signs re help maybe relevant in town, with railway bridges, etc. Going back to the Creux-du-Van for instance, as an example- in a nature reserve with the most amazing views, etc- it is 1400m wide by 200m height- so do you think it would help to post signs all along the ridge about suicide support? Same on every ridge in the Jura and the Alps?
Of course signs will help irrespective of where they are. They won't stop everyone that's for sure but if they help even one or two people to seek an alternative surely that's worth it.

Taking your example of the Creux du Van I don't think you'd need to post signs all along the ridge. People arrive there from one direction or the other via the paths so a few strategically placed notices at the main arrival points plus a couple more along the way would be a good start. Likewise for other potential suicide 'hot spots'. Anyone who is determined to kill themselves will do so anyway but if people are made aware of the help available to them it may just make a difference to some of them ( even in very rural areas).
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Old 11.09.2015, 14:34
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

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The challenge is finding them in time.



IIRC some suicide "hot spots" (one I have heard of is near Dover) have notices (rather than barriers) giving details of helplines.



In addition to the barriers, putting up information on where to get help at these notices might help too.

I was in Dover last month and I saw such a sign...i just don't remember exactly where.
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Old 11.09.2015, 14:37
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

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I was in Dover last month and I saw such a sign...i just don't remember exactly where.
There's at least one on the top of the cliffs near the National Trust cafe place.
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Old 11.09.2015, 14:38
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

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Agreed Carlos. But your comment about signs re help maybe relevant in town, with railway bridges, etc. Going back to the Creux-du-Van for instance, as an example- in a nature reserve with the most amazing views, etc- it is 1400m wide by 200m height- so do you think it would help to post signs all along the ridge about suicide support? Same on every ridge in the Jura and the Alps?
1. If they are going to put a barrier up, then attaching a sign (or a series of) is an easy addition to the fence. That's what my comment was aimed at. So in short/fundamentally: yes.

2. There are always "black-spots". If putting up signs were limited, I would focus on those first. Ultimately is isn't going to work for everyone, but if it stops a few, and gets them to seek help, then it is worthwhile.

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I was in Dover last month and I saw such a sign...i just don't remember exactly where.
Probably Beachy Head (photo of sign in link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beachy_Head)

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Old 11.09.2015, 14:43
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

This is one of the best awareness campaigns I've seen in recent years:

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Old 11.09.2015, 14:54
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

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In today's news, Canton ZH will be spending almost 3 millions on suicide prevention. The money will be used for 18 projects between 2015 and 2018.

New website (only German, it seems)

Barriers etc. will be built at buildings, bridges and train tracks, the public informed, prevention increased and, among other things, pharmacies and doctor's offices will offer a card with emergency contact numbers for those in suicidal crises.

I'm glad this is happening, but one should always remember that not all suicides are "not well thought out, impulsive actions", and that the question "who has the right to let one die or not, or to hinder suicides" is a very hot topic. The discussion surrounding assisted suicide shows this very well IMO. While prevention is important, it is just as important to give those who have decided they want to commit suicide, and thought it through, an option to do so. Thus while the prevention measures are being ramped up, people should also be given the information they could need about assisted suicide organisations. I believe that, if assisted suicide organisations do their job well and don't just assist anyone who walks in their doors after 2 days without asking the necessary questions, but rather look into the case very carefully for months before assisting, and prevention is successful for those who really do not know what they are doing at the time of their deaths, things can improve in CH.

But if only prevention is ramped up and no information is given regarding methods of dying of one's own choice in as pain-free a way as possible, it isn't fair towards those who don't have access to EXIT etc. and know they don't want to live a life in misery, but now feel they have to due to options being reduced.


What do you think?

Edit: Forgot to mention that Sept 10 is International Suicide Prevention Day, so perhaps that's the reason this is in papers now.

There was, right at the pxit of the rail tunnel from Enge to Wollishofen a place where among others, a neighbour and a pupil from our School did suicide. . SBB and Police have made sure that this is no longer possible. It must have been expensive indeed, but worth a lot
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Old 11.09.2015, 15:24
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

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1. If they are going to put a barrier up, then attaching a sign (or a series of) is an easy addition to the fence. That's what my comment was aimed at. So in short/fundamentally: yes.

It is a nature reserve, there is no fence! and hopefully never will be. There are at least 10 entry places. Can we put a fence on all the alps too, and all along the railway lines, the motorways, the lakes?

Counselling is the way- not fences. There will always be a gap- and here people could just drive over the border and go to the Mt d'Or or umpteen other cliffs.
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Old 11.09.2015, 21:49
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

As someone whos sister literally threw herself before a bus in London ca. 10 years ago, I really appreciate the sensitivity with which this thread is being handled...
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Old 11.09.2015, 21:53
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

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As someone whos sister literally threw herself before a bus in London ca. 10 years ago, I really appreciate the sensitivity with which this thread is being handled...
Same here. Insensitive people REALLY should stay out of this thread.

Sorry for your loss, it can hurt like hell to lose someone.
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Old 11.09.2015, 21:59
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Re: Canton ZH spends almost 3 millions on suicide prevention

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Same here. Insensitive people REALLY should stay out of this thread.

Sorry for your loss, it can hurt like hell to lose someone.
Thanks, yes, it's something you don't really recover from...
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