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  #41  
Old 08.10.2015, 00:06
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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I fully agree with your view - if they want to live in Switzerland, they need to integrate.
What about if they just want to come on holiday and spend lots of money on handbags, shoes and jewellery?
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  #42  
Old 08.10.2015, 00:20
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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...It doen't really make sense. The author mentions issues of "freedom" and "repressions", yet the initiative curtails freedom, and is repressive. I mean, what next? Ban BDSM fetish wear?...

I'd love to hang out where you do. I haven't seen people in fetish wear* access the same places those in muslim garb do. I believe for this thread this one fits:

*insert fetish wear of choice
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  #43  
Old 08.10.2015, 00:21
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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What about if they just want to come on holiday and spend lots of money on handbags, shoes and jewellery?
nah the snotty sales woman in the posh Zurich shop will just tell them they can't afford their handbags, of course!
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  #44  
Old 08.10.2015, 09:17
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

oh yes . Thats another matter. Then they can wear what they like as long as they spend money,money, money ( must be funny, in an Arabian world)
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What about if they just want to come on holiday and spend lots of money on handbags, shoes and jewellery?
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  #45  
Old 08.10.2015, 09:36
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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correction- allow the face and eyes to be free!
so basically you agree with the ban as presently being proposed by SVP?
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  #46  
Old 08.10.2015, 09:39
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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What about if they just want to come on holiday and spend lots of money on handbags, shoes and jewellery?
Then they still need to dress like the locals, and accept OUR ways.

Tom
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  #47  
Old 08.10.2015, 09:40
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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I don't think people get that the burka has nothing to do with beauty. It has to do with fetishising and reducing women into nothing more than sexual object.
I don't think it has anything to do with anything.

Like many traditions, they may have made sense at some point in the past, but being a tradition they have become a point of principle in themselves, which is why you can't really have an objective discussion about them with those who want to keep them.
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  #48  
Old 08.10.2015, 09:41
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

We have no idea what they are wearing under the Burka. It could be just some sexy undearwear**, or nothing at all, or even just a "butterfly"

So while your standing there wondering whether she is feel oppressed, she may be standing there having an orgasm.




** I read somewhere that they do actually spend quite a bit of sexy underwear (not one to google from work)
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  #49  
Old 08.10.2015, 09:43
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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What about if they just want to come on holiday and spend lots of money on handbags, shoes and jewellery?
Exceptions will apply for those who spend more than a certain amount of money.
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  #50  
Old 08.10.2015, 09:43
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

Das Verhüllungsverbot ritzt die persönliche Freiheit von Einzelpersonen. Dies gilt nicht nur, aber auch für die Religionsfreiheit von Frauen, welche die Burka oder den Niqab freiwillig tragen. Für einen solchen Eingriff in die Grundrechte braucht es zwingend ein öffentliches Interesse, und der Eingriff muss verhältnismässig sein. Frauen, die ihr Gesicht ganz verhüllen, sind im Tessin und in der übrigen Schweiz relativ selten. Nach Ansicht von humanrights.ch besteht daher kein öffentliches Interesse an einem entsprechenden Verbot. Ein solches präventives Gesetz verärgert unnötigerweise einzelne Mitglieder einer religiösen Minderheit und trägt nicht zu einem toleranten Zusammenleben bei.

The veil ban scratches personal freedom of individuals . This applies not only , but also for the freedom of religion of women who wear the burka or the niqab wearing voluntarily . For such an intervention in the fundamental rights it needs necessarily in the public interest , and the intervention must be proportionate. Women who cover their faces entirely , are relatively rare in Ticino and the rest of Switzerland . According humanrights.ch therefore there is no public interest in a corresponding prohibition . Such preventive law angered unnecessarily individual members of a religious minority and does not contribute to a tolerant coexistence with .
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  #51  
Old 08.10.2015, 09:44
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

yes thats understandable
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Exceptions will apply for those who spend more than a certain amount of money.
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  #52  
Old 08.10.2015, 10:15
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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yes thats understandable
and why not?

If your average Joe comes to associate a burka wearer with a rich bint who spends a million a day on fashion accessories, people in shops will be more welcoming towards them and give them the red carpet treatment and this will improve the overall image and reception of the burka, oder?
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  #53  
Old 08.10.2015, 10:21
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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If your average Joe comes to associate a burka wearer with a rich bint who spends a million a day on fashion accessories, people in shops will be more welcoming towards them and give them the red carpet treatment and this will improve the overall image and reception of the burka, oder?
Geneva offers a full scale experimentation of your theory every summer. The money part works, the last bit doesn't: No general improvement of the overall image and reception of anything non genevan, with or without burka.
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  #54  
Old 08.10.2015, 10:28
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

I generally disagree with anything the SVP say on principle. However, I'd be glad to see a symbol of misogyny and oppression banned. The fact that some women choose to wear it out of free choice does not mean that it isn't misogynistic nor oppressive. Some women approve and promote FGM.

The fact that some women wear it because otherwise they feel immodestly dressed is sad.

I saw a woman wearing a burqa at SBB the other day. It wasn't until I got passed her that I saw she was in fact a nun...
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  #55  
Old 08.10.2015, 11:57
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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We have no idea what they are wearing under the Burka. It could be just some sexy undearwear**, or nothing at all, or even just a "butterfly". So while your standing there wondering whether she is feel oppressed, she may be standing there having an orgasm.
** I read somewhere that they do actually spend quite a bit of sexy underwear (not one to google from work)
I can't tell you about the toys part, but the stories about lingerie are true in at least a couple of times, on both sides of the pond, where I was a witness. Here were these groups of abaya-clad women (I assume they were women under there?) buying the skimpiest, porn-like outfits. The extremes were so stark and amusing - black outfits with only eyes shown vs the most garish outfits they were purchasing. If there was an outfit with some sparkle or see-through lace, they got it. Maybe it is a bit of a fetish for some, like shoes for others.

On another note, I was once waiting for a friend at an airport in the US when people started coming out from the restricted arrival area, and a woman dressed in a niqab plus a battula (or batoollah, had to look up the name) came out with her male companion, that left us, who had never seen this before, shocked! The place was packed, but in shock, the crowd parted creating this wide isle to made space for this couple, and gawk at this woman's outfit. The comments weren't very nice once the stunned crowd recovered. I can see it being a useful toy in BDSM, though.
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  #56  
Old 08.10.2015, 12:33
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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I fully agree with your view - if they want to live in Switzerland, they need to integrate.
I disagree with this. There are some things in Switzerland that are just in the middle ages. Things like forced maternity leave, discrimination in employment, "traditional gender roles," etc...

I am a happy feminist atheist, and I'm not changing, even if I live in Switzerland.
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Old 08.10.2015, 12:41
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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I am a happy feminist atheist
We go that from your username
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Old 08.10.2015, 12:51
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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If there was an outfit with some sparkle or see-through lace, they got it. Maybe it is a bit of a fetish for some, like shoes for others.
Why couldn't burqas be had in leather, pvc or rubber? I believe I've seen them. But they would have to be ventilated to breathe. I've also seen a lot more face veil jewelry and chains lately. They rock when worn by the right woman at the right place.
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Old 08.10.2015, 13:20
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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...they rock when worn by the right woman or man at the right place.
ftfy
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  #60  
Old 08.10.2015, 13:27
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

This is such a sensitive and controversial subject (similar to the smoking threads)

I find it offensive to have personal choice of clothing "banned".
But on the other hand can understand the thinking behind it - it is just so foreign to the European western ways.

As others who`ve visited those eastern countries have said, their laws and restrictions are also ridiculous.

Unmarried couples may not hold hands in public - unmarried couples may not share the same hotel bedroom or sleep with each other (will be arrested and jailed for both those "offences" - yes true, happened when I was there, but was not ME, hahaa)

European foreigners are restricted to certain bathing beaches - where there are no male attendants. Beaches are screened from public view of streets.

Non muslims are forbidden to walk past a Mosque during their prayer times, unless women are cloaked in black garb thing. (Don`t know about men foreigners, but applies to women).

I do know that the women (in Emirates where I was for a time) "enjoy" wearing their Burka cloaks, and do wear stunning outfits underneath. And enjoy their "designer" Burkas and are able to instantly recognize each other by the details (?) and their shoes (?) (so they said).

So, the Muslim women - who wear sexy tight revealing clothing, but not allowed to cover up in public - will simply be forced to stay indoors at home.

To be totally banned in Europe is going to shock them.

Seeing bikini clad girls at public pools in Europe is going to shock them too - especially the men, who seem to go crazed at the sight of any female flesh?


Soooooo .... going to be interesting times ahead?
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