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Old 13.10.2015, 13:36
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French frontaliers debt grows

as of today, the frontaliers Cantons that, unlike Geneva, to not charge tax on the frontaliers, but where the French GVT pays a small proportion back to the Canton where the frontaliers work (4.5 % of gross salary)- are still due 300 million that was payable by the end of June. This puts Communes, like mine, which do rely partly on this money to balance their budget, in a very difficult situation- as they now have to get loans and pay interest on them. Not helping with tensions here, as firms are teetering on having to make people redundant due to the high CHF and falling markets.
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Old 13.10.2015, 13:39
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

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as of today, the frontaliers Cantons that, unlike Geneva, to not charge tax on the frontaliers, but where the French GVT pays a small proportion back to the Canton where the frontaliers work- are still due 300 million that was payable by the end of June. This puts Communes, like mine, which do rely partly on this money to balance their budget, in a very difficult situation- as they now have to get loans and pay interest on them.
Taxes will have to go up & property prices will fall, kind of double whammy, however you seem to like it there.
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Old 13.10.2015, 13:44
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

wow. you enjoy this don't you? We will be fine and dandy. don't you worry about us but yes, we do love it and properties like ours with land are very hard to come by now... and as we get poorer and poorer, we pay less and less tax- hurrah

Last edited by Odile; 13.10.2015 at 14:09.
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Old 13.10.2015, 14:02
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

Hope they get a 10% fine like i do when im late with payment... not that it ever happened
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Old 13.10.2015, 14:32
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

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wow. you enjoy this don't you? We will be fine and dandy. don't you worry about us but yes, we do love it and properties like ours with land are very hard to come by now... and as we get poorer and poorer, we pay less and less tax- hurrah
Well, easy, isn't it? If I am an entrepreneur and the French don't pay their debts and therefore the commune has to raise the taxes... if I need to make people redundant do I know who will go first.
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Old 13.10.2015, 14:59
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

Well yes, that - inevitable. Especially at a time where NE is putting an awful lot of effort into retraining the unemployed to fill those jobs, for which they were not qualified before.
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Old 13.10.2015, 15:06
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

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Well, easy, isn't it? If I am an entrepreneur and the French don't pay their debts and therefore the commune has to raise the taxes... if I need to make people redundant do I know who will go first.
How will that help? presumably most workers bring in 2 to 5 X salary, so sacking people would equate to lower profits.

If you sack the entire workforce, you will have a positive cash flow for a bit....... but then ?
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Old 13.10.2015, 15:38
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

This is not what Treverus said though, is it? If they have to make a % redundant, they will keep the frontaliers who are indispensable, and let the others go- and use more Swiss, including those being currently re-trained by the ORP to take those jobs- now that will be a double whammy- a/ no need to pay chômage, and b/ get more taxes in directly.
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Old 13.10.2015, 15:39
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

This is not what Treverus said though, is it, which was 'I know who would go FIRST'.

If they have to make a % redundant, they will keep the frontaliers who are indispensable, and let the others go- and use more Swiss, including those being currently re-trained by the ORP to take those jobs- now that will be a double whammy- a/ no need to pay chômage, and b/ get more taxes in directly.
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Old 13.10.2015, 15:44
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

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This is not what Treverus said though, is it, which was 'I know who would go FIRST'.

If they have to make a % redundant, they will keep the frontaliers who are indispensable, and let the others go- and use more Swiss, including those being currently re-trained by the ORP to take those jobs- now that will be a double whammy- a/ no need to pay chômage, and b/ get more taxes in directly.
I thought the watch industry was growing, so why make people redundant?

The company does not receive any of the taxes paid so I don't get it. Unless all the employees lived in the same village as the company it won't make any difference.

Only making employees redundant that cost more than they produce will save money, so older people in management is a good place to look.
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Old 13.10.2015, 15:47
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

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as of today, the frontaliers Cantons that, unlike Geneva, to not charge tax on the frontaliers, but where the French GVT pays a small proportion back to the Canton where the frontaliers work (4.5 % of gross salary)- are still due 300 million that was payable by the end of June. This puts Communes, like mine, which do rely partly on this money to balance their budget, in a very difficult situation- as they now have to get loans and pay interest on them. Not helping with tensions here, as firms are teetering on having to make people redundant due to the high CHF and falling markets.

But WHY ??
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Old 13.10.2015, 15:54
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

sorry Wolli. but why what? Could you be a bit clearer please.

This area specialises in 2 things, precision enginnering and machinery, and high quality watches. Exporting the first is currently very hard because of the high CHF and much cheaper costs and labour elsewhere. And the market for the latter is narrowing due to the financial crisis in coutries like China, who had become excellent customers for high end watches.
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Old 13.10.2015, 16:01
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

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as of today, the frontaliers Cantons that, unlike Geneva, to not charge tax on the frontaliers, but where the French GVT pays a small proportion back to the Canton where the frontaliers work (4.5 % of gross salary)- are still due 300 million that was payable by the end of June. This puts Communes, like mine, which do rely partly on this money to balance their budget, in a very difficult situation- as they now have to get loans and pay interest on them. Not helping with tensions here, as firms are teetering on having to make people redundant due to the high CHF and falling markets.
well. with negative interest rates, maybe they can benefit by borrowing the money and getting paid interest to do so until the onion-munchers cough up the dough.
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Old 13.10.2015, 16:50
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

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I thought the watch industry was growing, so why make people redundant?
a) smart watches
b) financial crisis in China.

According to this: http://www.cash.ch/news/alle/uhrenin...ft-3368202-448
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Old 13.10.2015, 17:01
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

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a) smart watches
b) financial crisis in China.

According to this: http://www.cash.ch/news/alle/uhrenin...ft-3368202-448
I thought the world & the forum had written off the Apple watch.
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Old 13.10.2015, 17:18
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

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I thought the world & the forum had written off the Apple watch.
I don't work in the industry and have no idea how the apple watch has impacted them... what I do know is that I was overseas in January when the CHF spiked and am very happy that I bought a Swiss watch the week before the manufacturers adjusted their prices. I think in the short term did this have quite an impact on the watches in the mid range from 5-10k. The Chinese market cool down for sure will have an impact as well.
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Old 13.10.2015, 17:20
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

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But WHY ??
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Old 13.10.2015, 18:00
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

Our Valley is working very hard at the moment in diversifying the industrial base, for excellent reasons- and becoming more successful at it.

Although the industries to not benefit directly from taxes, be they Swiss or frontaliers 'returns' they do indirectly in many ways, via services, happy workers with great schools and facilities, etc- and of course if there are plenty of taxes coming in, possible reductions in taxes for all.

But there is also another factor, and it is a human one. Many of our industries here have bosses who are local, grew up here and chose to stay here and invest here. And for them, the welfare of our Valley and its inhabitants is also very important- that is priceless actually. They went to the same schools, and played hockey with, and ski raced their workers, and their kids are at school with their kids, at all levels. Not a single kid goes to private school here, for instance. Brilliant.

Another important human factor, is the fact that those who sit at the Château, our local Government, and working really hard to try and bring taxes down, re-train the unemployed and bring a greater diversity of industries to the area- also went to the same schools, and played hockey and skied together- and stiil do. And they do work together on the above issues. They are helping in the retraining of the local unemployed, and also are prepared to make a big effort to find them jobs if they are suitable, etc.
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Old 13.10.2015, 19:34
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French frontaliers debt grows

I've seen this mindset when I called a cleaning company looking for a job (in Vaud). The person who answered said that they employ only C and citizens. When I tried to explain that this is a B permit holder they replied that well, first they have to take care for their own.
However, when I was hired then only a cost driven criteria was used.
So I think when the Party in China starts yet another image-polishing campaign entitled "we fight corruption" then also the Swiss employees might feel the heat. Don't forget that in quartz watch crisis of 70ies Saint-Croix lost a third of its population and never recovered.
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Old 13.10.2015, 20:02
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Re: French frontaliers debt grows

St Croix is quite a different story actually- and it industry which collapsed in the 70s, was much more based on musical boxes, record players and cameras, including the famous BOLEX.

The watch making industry was much more important in my Valley- where about about a dozen watch making and parts manufacturers closed in the 70s- as well as a massive knitting machine factory, the best in the world for over a Century- as they didn't see the Japanese arriving with new technology. It was a tragedy for the area- I grew up here in the 50s and 60s- when all those industries were booming, watch makers, but also hands, ébauches, and all sort of parts, and also several engineering firms, and as said, a massive knitting machine factory exporting all over the world.

But some of the young watch-makers picked themselves up, and decided, very wisely and cleverly, that the only way to bring back watch-making was to invest in very high quality top of the range watches. They took a huge risk- but it paid off- with the highest quality label attached. One of those was the son of an Italian immigrant- I take my hat off to him for all he has achieved. And the authorities also realised it was paramount to diversify.

Yacek. it is tough for you and I am sorry. But can you really talk about a 'mindset' in a negative way. Vaud on its own is owed over one million CHF by France for frontaliers. That is not peanuts. And each unemployed person and their family cost the community millions too- as well as affects a whole range of cultural and social factors too. As hard as it is on you, can you not imagine why it makes sense to employ local people first, and that this is not anti frontaliers or foreign workers? Bonne chance.
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