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Old 11.11.2015, 18:24
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Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not wanting to be friends with the EU

Such as.. research grants

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...demics-tell-uk

Last edited by Ace1; 12.11.2015 at 09:08. Reason: Fixed title, removed correction in post
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Old 11.11.2015, 18:30
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not want to be friends with the EU

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bah.. title should have been:
Stuff Switzerland doesn't get, not wanting to be friends with the EU

Such as.. research grants

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...demics-tell-uk
Why did the EU research funding thing become effective immediately whereas the rest of the initiative is still at the "trying to negotiate with the EU but probably not going anywhere" stage?
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Old 11.11.2015, 18:30
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not want to be friends with the EU

But the article also says "The Swiss National Science Foundation has stepped in with money, so – for the time being – no Swiss researchers have run short of funding. And universities across the country mostly succeeded in negotiating individual accords with the hundreds of European institutions welcoming their Erasmus students."

Seems EPFL was very reliant on ERC grants - it doesn't seem to have had much impact on ETH for example.
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Old 11.11.2015, 19:36
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not want to be friends with the EU

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But the article also says "The Swiss National Science Foundation has stepped in with money, so – for the time being – no Swiss researchers have run short of funding. And universities across the country mostly succeeded in negotiating individual accords with the hundreds of European institutions welcoming their Erasmus students."

Seems EPFL was very reliant on ERC grants - it doesn't seem to have had much impact on ETH for example.
What were you expecting from a left wing pro EU rag like The Guardian?

Objectivity?
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Old 11.11.2015, 22:07
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not want to be friends with the EU

If switzerland was getting more money out of eu research programmes than it was putting in i guess it was better before, but otherwise it's just a temporary problem.
Regarding researchers themselves, free movement of people makes things easier for european scientists when they move, but it doesn't have a real impact, there's a ton of scientists from third countries coming and going like it's always been.
Me personally i prefer keeping it anyway.

Last edited by Meerkat33; 11.11.2015 at 22:30.
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Old 12.11.2015, 07:52
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not want to be friends with the EU

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bah.. title should have been:
Stuff Switzerland doesn't get, not wanting to be friends with the EU
Switzerland has no problem being friends with the EU (or any other civilized nation)
The problem is that the EU doesn't want friends. It wants minions.
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Old 12.11.2015, 16:50
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not wanting to be friends with the EU

mmm...

I'm pretty agnostic on the issue of EU membership for CH.. there are plenty of reasons pro and con. But, I do think the Pro membership / cooperation parties do a very bad job of highlighting the advantages.

plus.. the Guardian may well be left wing.. but calling it a 'rag' conjures up images of rabid, mouth frothing extremism
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Old 12.11.2015, 17:39
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not want to be friends with the EU

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Why did the EU research funding thing become effective immediately whereas the rest of the initiative is still at the "trying to negotiate with the EU but probably not going anywhere" stage?
I assume because it was a new funding programming for seven years. Probably an existing programming or a new one with a timescaleof one or two years would have been treated differently?
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Old 12.11.2015, 17:41
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not want to be friends with the EU

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Why did the EU research funding thing become effective immediately whereas the rest of the initiative is still at the "trying to negotiate with the EU but probably not going anywhere" stage?
EU flexing its muscles of course. It happened within two weeks of the vote. They simply decided not to sign the new agreement with Switzerland.
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Old 12.11.2015, 17:55
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not want to be friends with the EU

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What were you expecting from a left wing pro EU rag like The Guardian?

Objectivity?


I wasn't expecting anything, I didn't post the article originally.

And actually the point I quoted was against the concerns of not being in the EU, not pro EU.
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Old 17.11.2015, 17:41
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not wanting to be friends with the EU

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I'm pretty agnostic on the issue of EU membership for CH.. there are plenty of reasons pro and con. But, I do think the Pro membership / cooperation parties do a very bad job of highlighting the advantages.
Long term it may be inevitable or necessary for Switzerland to join - really depends on whether the EU lasts this present rocky period and how geopolitics develop over the next few decades. As such, it probably has time to hold back, as long as if it is ultimately forced to join, it can do so from a position of strength and not wait till the last minute.
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plus.. the Guardian may well be left wing.. but calling it a 'rag' conjures up images of rabid, mouth frothing extremism
If fairness, the Guardian has gone really downhill in recent years. The online version has become little more than SJW clickbate.
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Old 17.11.2015, 20:00
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not want to be friends with the EU

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What were you expecting from a left wing pro EU rag like The Guardian?

Objectivity?

Left wing, most definitely, rag, I think not. For cheap, quick fix journalism, read the Daily Mail. I shan't mention the others!
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Old 30.11.2015, 19:12
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not wanting to be friends with the EU

If you want to get a better understanding of the EU don't read any paper (rag or otherwise) from any EU country, including Britain.
Here is a very recent article of the origins and intentions of the EU from an alternative media source...

Who Is Really Behind the EU?
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Old 30.11.2015, 19:31
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not wanting to be friends with the EU

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If you want to get a better understanding of the EU don't read any paper (rag or otherwise) from any EU country, including Britain.
Here is a very recent article of the origins and intentions of the EU from an alternative media source...

Who Is Really Behind the EU?
NWO huh? Are they spraying Morgellons via aircraft distribution as well?
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Old 30.11.2015, 19:35
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not wanting to be friends with the EU

Not really news or surprising, it's been obvious for a long time that eventually they'd try and make "one nation" with the current ones becoming "states" as in the US.
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Old 30.11.2015, 20:04
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not wanting to be friends with the EU

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Not really news or surprising, it's been obvious for a long time that eventually they'd try and make "one nation" with the current ones becoming "states" as in the US.
I don't think that this is what they want. Not at all.
Take PIGS for instance.
If EU was like the USA, then EU would have to finance those countries (states more likely) out of their problems. Much like New Orleans with Katrina.

Alas, they want minions, like Krist said.

Last edited by bchris; 30.11.2015 at 20:05. Reason: forgot "the" before USA
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Old 30.11.2015, 20:29
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not wanting to be friends with the EU

And they're not doing that already with Greece?
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Old 30.11.2015, 20:52
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not wanting to be friends with the EU

There are several major problems with the EU. One is that individual countries do not have separate monetary controls, all countries must follow the EU bank in Frankfurt. As higher inflation is not permitted, the monetary pressure results in higher unemployment.

Switzerland is a federation, and as we can all see, very little real financial power is federal; most taxes are collected by the towns and cantons. So how will a country that jealously guards it's independence from the other 26 cantons, join up with a European federation? It isn't going happen in our lifetime.
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Old 30.11.2015, 21:02
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not wanting to be friends with the EU

And the Swiss science community is better off for it, in my opinion. The ERC funds an amazing hodge-podge of nonsense. EPFL probably is too dependent on ERC funding, but so are Oxford and Cambridge (because the UK is ridiculously miserly towards science). Right now those two schools are running on ERC money and cheap Chinese labour.

EPFL has good links to the tech sector, hopefully some groups will work closer with commercial researchers, and others will get money from SNF and such. Honestly, ERC grants are such an exceptional crap-shoot, that they're probably better off after they spend a year or two diversifying. Mortensen claimed they would get 10 early researcher grants or whatever, but it's probably 10 +/- 10.

Science is absolutely a field where having decentralization is an advantage. Each country's science program is like its own little idea incubator. Having some technocrat five levels of hierarchy above the Ph.D.s means he or she has no idea what they are actually managing.

Honestly you have to starve researchers just a little to get the best results. People with too much comfort in their lives aren't as good at innovating. It's a careful balancing act.
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Old 30.11.2015, 21:28
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Re: Stuff Switzerland doesnt get, not wanting to be friends with the EU

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Honestly you have to starve researchers...
Same as all the employees. Especially if they have hungry kids. And if they are under slight stress all the time they produce even more. Later on you also spend less on pensions.
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