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  #61  
Old 17.01.2016, 01:05
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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It is voting to stop 2 rapes per year and zero murders (murderers are not repeat offenders)?
well that argument can go both ways imho
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  #62  
Old 18.01.2016, 00:23
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Interesting article in Tagesanzeiger today saying that this initiative will cost millions in two figures.
The quote is from Rolf Grädel, who is the President of the Swiss public prosecutor organisation and also a senior SVP member. Look
here
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  #63  
Old 18.01.2016, 00:27
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

A lot of political professionals are urging not to vote for it, as it would increase their level of work. But that is no reason to not do the right thing. Public officials should be glad they are getting paid by taxpayers, and really need to start fulfilling their end on their work arrangement. They are employed by taxpayers, and not vice versa.

I'll be glad to see this pass.
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  #64  
Old 18.01.2016, 00:29
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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A lot of political professionals are urging not to vote for it, as it would increase their level of work. But that is no reason to not do the right thing. Public officials should be glad they are getting paid by taxpayers, and really need to start fulfilling their end on their work arrangement. They are employed by taxpayers, and not vice versa.

I'll be glad to see this pass.

Have you researched this now and understand this topic is to reduce the power of judges to select appropriate sentences?
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  #65  
Old 18.01.2016, 01:03
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

I am afraid the only winners in this case will be the immigration lawyers, laughing all the way to the bank.
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  #66  
Old 18.01.2016, 01:12
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Well, you said something that I am not sure if it is another one of your hyperboles or true. Particularly mandatory sentencing. Sentencing is at the discretion of judges, and I find it odd it would be taken away completely from judges. I'll get back to you on that.
This alone shows you have no clue what you're talking about. The Durchsetzungsinitiative is about exactly that, about taking discretion away from judges.

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I'll be glad to see this pass.
Sigh.
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  #67  
Old 18.01.2016, 01:24
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Consequences:
Share of foreigners in the swiss prisons: 73.0%
Are you aware there are many laws that don't even apply to swiss citizens? Any and all paragraphs of the Ausländergesetz for example.

Now, if you're a suspect, as a citizen you're much less likely to run away than a foreigner. Consequently the latter are much more likely to be imprisoned during the investigation.

And of course there are all them bloody false asylim seekers waiting to be deported, and similar.

A fair comparison would filter these situations, and probably many more I'm not aware of. But that wouldn't be SVP style as it would force them to stop painting a black/white picture. People would be forced to think, something the SVP "scheut wie der Teufel das Weihwasser" (something SVP shuns like the devil shuns holied water?). Otherwise they would have a much smaller voter share.
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  #68  
Old 18.01.2016, 01:59
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Sentencing is at the discretion of judges, and I find it odd it would be taken away completely from judges. .
This alone shows you have no clue what you're talking about. The Durchsetzungsinitiative is about exactly that, about taking discretion away from judges.

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I'll be glad to see this pass.
Sigh.
Sadly I believe there will be many Swiss voters like this who vote for this initiative with no clue what the topic is about.

Makes one despair for democracy; one just has to remember that half the voters are below average IQ!
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  #69  
Old 18.01.2016, 11:08
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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This alone shows you have no clue what you're talking about. The Durchsetzungsinitiative is about exactly that, about taking discretion away from judges.

Sigh.

Hmmm, well given that judges have failed to sentence accordingly, and never took the people's initiative seriously, I suppose this initiative is to compel courts to apply the law.

Okay, I think that is a step in the right direction. I could see why lots of intelligent people will vote for this. I believe it will pass.
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  #70  
Old 18.01.2016, 11:46
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Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Makes one despair for democracy; one just has to remember that half the voters are below average IQ!

median, not avg.
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  #71  
Old 18.01.2016, 11:50
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Interesting article in Tagesanzeiger today saying that this initiative will cost millions in two figures.
If looking at plain cost to the economy one should also add that imprisoning repeat offenders is considered cheaper than having them on the loose. So a deportation could be seen as even cheaper long-term solution.
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  #72  
Old 18.01.2016, 11:51
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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median, not avg.
IQ 10, 100,110,120. Avg (mean) = 85. Number below avg = 1. But if the mean deviation is small, then median ~= mean. So the question is, when it comes to population IQ, what's the mean deviation?
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  #73  
Old 18.01.2016, 12:31
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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IQ 10, 100,110,120. Avg (mean) = 85. Number below avg = 1. But if the mean deviation is small, then median ~= mean. So the question is, when it comes to population IQ, what's the mean deviation?
Standard deviation is (by definition) 15.

Tom
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  #74  
Old 18.01.2016, 12:54
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

I have always and will continue to hate stats with a deep and abiding loathing.
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  #75  
Old 18.01.2016, 12:59
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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IQ 10, 100,110,120. Avg (mean) = 85. Number below avg = 1. But if the mean deviation is small, then median ~= mean. So the question is, when it comes to population IQ, what's the mean deviation?


Initially it was said that IQ follows a normal distribution, also known as Gaussian distribution. Which means Mean == median == mode, and it has a bell curve shape. Thus it is irrelevant what the mean deviation is. Furthermore, the mean deviation will not tell you anything about mean vs. median relationship as it does not care if the values are more to the left or more to the right of the mean. You have to look at the skewness, which is 0 for a normal distribution. Depending on the definition of skewness, it may tell you if the mean is larger or smaller than median for a given distribution. One commonly used, the third standardized moment, does not give you this information.


As said, the IQ is belived to follow a normal distribution, the so called bell curve. May be that rings a bell, as there was a book in the mid 1990' called The Bell Curve. Which stirred up a lot of controversy, as it said that IQ correlates which other factors in live.


Which finally leads me to:
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Makes one despair for democracy; one just has to remember that half the voters are below average IQ!
This is only a "problem" if, and only if IQ correlates with wise long term decision making. Wheras the hot topic is not if there is a correlation but the definition of "wise".
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  #76  
Old 18.01.2016, 13:37
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

They can reinforce deportation all they want, that won't answer the outmost fundamental question for this country and for the world:

Where can Sepp Blatter be sent to?
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  #77  
Old 18.01.2016, 13:52
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Sadly I believe there will be many Swiss voters like this who vote for this initiative with no clue what the topic is about.

Makes one despair for democracy; one just has to remember that half the voters are below average IQ!
and some don't understand the difference between average IQ and median IQ

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Initially it was said that IQ follows a normal distribution, also known as Gaussian distribution. Which means Mean == median == mode, and it has a bell curve shape.
doesn't work as there aren't people with negative IQ, but there are people with double the median.
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Old 18.01.2016, 14:18
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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doesn't work as there aren't people with negative IQ, but there are people with double the median.
And which peer-reviewed IQ-Test with mean=100, stdv=15, claims it can meassure IQ beyond 160, which can meassure beyond 175, which can meassure beyond 190?


You know what the likelyhood of an IQ of 200 means regarding mean=100, stdv=15, given it is a normal distribution?
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  #79  
Old 18.01.2016, 14:30
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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; one just has to remember that half the voters are below average IQ!



More likely ill informed or allowing emotions to play too great a role in deciion making!
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Old 18.01.2016, 14:50
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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And which peer-reviewed IQ-Test with mean=100, stdv=15, claims it can meassure IQ beyond 160, which can meassure beyond 175, which can meassure beyond 190?


You know what the likelyhood of an IQ of 200 means regarding mean=100, stdv=15, given it is a normal distribution?
but if the measurement isn't accurate or reliable in that range, so is the claim that you're looking at a genuine bell curve.
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