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  #41  
Old 20.01.2016, 12:59
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Because they were almost all Muslim. That's how you know.
I fail to see your logic. How does "Because they were almost all Muslim." indicate that those sacked/suspended/whatever were selected solely because

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They looked at the colour and the names- and crossed them off the list! Just like that, it seems.

Mohammed - out
Rashid - out
Ahmed - out
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  #42  
Old 20.01.2016, 13:05
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Exactly and that makes it even worse. They looked at the colour and the names- and crossed them off the list! Just like that, it seems.

Mohammed - out
Rashid - out
Ahmed - out
Well, according to the interviews on Swiss radio was the situation pretty different: The employer just sent some letter to the fired staff explaining that it was "due to security updates from the authorities". So the guys went to the Geneva police. Who said that they just passed on Intel from France and since they are all French anyway, they should talk to the French intelligence service. I personally did not know you can do so, but apparently did the guys get an interview there... and said that the agents they talked to were rather surprised and confirmed to them that none had any record or any warning to his name. At all.

Please: can somebody explain to me how it is "understandable" as several have posted it here? Being a Muslim or technically just having a Muslim name is enough to be banned from any security related job? Seriously?

The guy interviewed was working there for seven years and has passed a yearly security check without any issue every year...
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  #43  
Old 20.01.2016, 13:17
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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I fail to see your logic. How does "Because they were almost all Muslim." indicate that those sacked/suspended/whatever were selected solely because
Do you mean "how does it prove"? Because if so, you're right, it doesn't conclusively prove that. Does it indicate that? Absolutely - you know it does because a newspaper bothered to write a story about it, because the fired people are taking action about it, because the lawyer has said the only feature that links these long standing employees is their religion and because the DSE and the airport are presenting a wall of silence.
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  #44  
Old 20.01.2016, 13:23
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Do you mean "how does it prove"? Because if so, you're right, it doesn't conclusively prove that. Does it indicate that? Absolutely - you know it does because a newspaper bothered to write a story about it, because the fired people are taking action about it, because the lawyer has said the only feature that links these long standing employees is their religion and because the DSE and the airport are presenting a wall of silence.
And I still see no mention of them selecting by using their name. It's fine, I don't need proof; it's only an internet forum. But is there anything, anything at all, that indicartes that names were selected because they sound a bit muslim, rather than, say, some sort of intellegence?
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  #45  
Old 20.01.2016, 13:24
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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But is there anything, anything at all, that indicartes that names were selected because they sound a bit muslim, rather than, say, some sort of intellegence?
No. But then there couldn't be - no one who knows is saying.
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  #46  
Old 20.01.2016, 13:39
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Absolutely. If I were fired from my job for something other than my performance or the affordability of my position to the company, I'd be mad as hell.
I was fired once for a reason that in my view was totally unjust.

I was mad as hell about it.

I don't remember blowing anything up though.
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  #47  
Old 20.01.2016, 13:40
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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No. But then there couldn't be - no one who knows is saying.
Do you assume the silence is to obscure their discriminative practices, or is it perhaps the nature of security measures? And if you had to weigh on one side or another, which way would you lean?
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  #48  
Old 20.01.2016, 13:43
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Do you assume the silence is to obscure their discriminative practices, or is it perhaps the nature of security measures? And if you had to weigh on one side or another, which way would you lean?
There might have been another solution.

If there is a slight reason to suspect somebody, there is no hard proof, but you don't want to take any risks, it might be fair to transfer that person to another job within the airport rather than firing them outright.
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  #49  
Old 20.01.2016, 13:49
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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There might have been another solution.

If there is a slight reason to suspect somebody, there is no hard proof, but you don't want to take any risks, it might be fair to transfer that person to another job within the airport rather than firing them outright.

Agreed, although that assumes there is a position open elsewhere. And you wouldn't really fire one to make place for another. These days, everyone runs a tight ship. Perhaps because they didn't try to re-assign these people also indicates the seriousness of their concerns.

As I understand in Switzerland, an employer can fire anyone for any reason they find justifiable. I'm sure they received a termination letter that explained it.
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Old 20.01.2016, 13:51
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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No. But then there couldn't be - no one who knows is saying.
So why did you bother disputing my question? And then continue to dispute it?
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  #51  
Old 20.01.2016, 13:56
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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As I understand in Switzerland, an employer can fire anyone for any reason they find justifiable. I'm sure they received a termination letter that explained it.
As I understand it (and only from a brief read of a couple of articles), if they were sacked, it would have been because they no longer had security clearance to do their job.
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Old 20.01.2016, 13:57
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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So why did you bother disputing my question? And then continue to dispute it?
Well, let's just look at the facts: Employer claims to be told the names by the police. Geneva police says they got the names from the French. The French cannot remember doing so and claim to not have any record on the people who got fired.

I like to defend our superior constitutional states against savage Muslim extremists. But from the information known today are the workers neither extremists nor have the French authorities shown how a legal process should work. It really looks like some flic was crossing out random Muslim names on a list.
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  #53  
Old 20.01.2016, 14:05
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

The remedy is for them to sue for abusive termination. They should win of course but I don't know how much compensation they'd get.
Apart from the damage done to these individuals it is more evidence that Muslims are hard done by, to be copied and pasted into the ISIS recruitment manual.
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  #54  
Old 20.01.2016, 14:05
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

My two cents: I think we are being overly simplistic about radicalisation.

While I agree that merely losing your job for unfair reasons shouldn't be enough to turn someone into a suicide bomber (if so, there were probably some already existing emotional/psychological issues), I do believe it adds to a potentially already long list of grievances.

I can only speak for myself, but as an expat, I have some understanding of what it is like to feel like an outsider to the society in which I am living. And yet, neither my culture nor my (lack of) religion is being vilified in the media and by society.

I can imagine that if I lived my daily life feeling like I don't belong, with no one believing I can contribute to society, being told to "go home" when, in fact I am home, and being put into a box with all of these evil people with whom all I have in common is my religion, appearance and name, it may only take something like this, which would appear so blatantly unjustified, to tip me over the edge.

This combined with a very powerful recruiting force, psychological manipulation and a feeling of belonging? That's when you have the making of an extremist.

Of course, this is only my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
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Old 20.01.2016, 14:07
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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As I understand it (and only from a brief read of a couple of articles), if they were sacked, it would have been because they no longer had security clearance to do their job.
That is what I picked up from it to. The anti-Muslim discrimination angle may be for them to get some concession, and is picked up by others as another case of bigotry. The difficult part here is trying to get any secret evidence from security services.

I'm sure it will spur more political hodgepdoge then it really warrants. Cue the IHCR! Cue the UN! Cue the Guardian! I'm glad Switzerland doesn't have an Al Sharpton.

I wouldn't mind if they get paid if wrongfully terminated. But I would hate for them to be reinstated if they were rightfully terminated.
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  #56  
Old 20.01.2016, 14:35
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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So why did you bother disputing my question? And then continue to dispute it?
Well, I didn't dispute your question, I tried to answer it. Let's say every Jew who worked for Shell was just fired. No reason was given. Let's say, (because there's a big context, widely affirmed and commented on, that there's a discrimination problem against Muslims in Switzerland) that this is Shell's German subsidiary and it's 1934. Again, no reason given either way. We might be able to surmise an ulterior motive? Or would you still say these was a random/normal HR exercise?

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As I understand it (and only from a brief read of a couple of articles), if they were sacked, it would have been because they no longer had security clearance to do their job.
Yes, in this case removing security clearance = sacking.
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Old 20.01.2016, 14:49
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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I'm sure it will spur more political hodgepdoge then it really warrants. Cue the IHCR! Cue the UN! Cue the Guardian! I'm glad Switzerland doesn't have an Al Sharpton.
I'm expecting this to be settled out of court and the whole thing not mentioned again.

Switzerland doesn't look kindly on people who settle feuds in public. Look what good it did to Mörgeli.

Swiss Muslims are sufficiently smart not to play the victim card at every turn, and to distance themselves from the leftists who want them to do so.
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Old 20.01.2016, 14:59
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

Frankly it would help if people actually read the info available instead of stopping mid-article.

As is stated, at least one employee was under special scrutiny by the french, the guy with the "fiche S", obviously unbeknownst to airport security or they would have reacted before being informed by the french. They need to ask themselves: How many more did we overlook? How many will potentially be killed in such a case?

As a consequence of the Paris terror attacks security measures got revised and tightened, in other words those in charge are doing their job. One measure is that security clearance is now checked every two years instead of five. Obviously that means about 60% of the personnel got checked at the same time, also obviously those that didn't pass get their security clearance withdrawn roughly at the same time.

Those in charge of security will have to prefer being too strict rather than let only one too many pass: Security comes first, full stop. There is no such thing as "in dubio pro reo" here as there are higher values at risk: the lives of your passengers and personnel.

They acted accordingly:
Their security clearances were withdrawn, no more no less. They were not fired.

What's also overlooked:
The criteria underlying the personnel security checks are defined by the BAZL. Obviously these measures would be relatively easy to bypass if known by the public, therefor the document's content is secret.

I don't give a shit what religion they are, provided they have one in the first place. But if they fail to pass the checks without problems I think their security clearance needs to be withdrawn. If possible keep employing them, but that will have to be second priority.
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Old 20.01.2016, 15:06
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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And I still see no mention of them selecting by using their name. It's fine, I don't need proof; it's only an internet forum. But is there anything, anything at all, that indicartes that names were selected because they sound a bit muslim, rather than, say, some sort of intellegence?
I wouldn't put it past the French to have instigated this as a sort of racial payback for Paris. Although I would hope that's not the case and the Intel would be good, in a way you have to trust that, as no intelligence service worth its weight would knowingly give away it source, which also makes the nature of trusting intelligence all the harder.
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Old 20.01.2016, 15:10
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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I wouldn't put it past the French to have instigated this as a sort of racial payback for Paris. Although I would hope that's not the case and the Intel would be good, in a way you have to trust that, as no intelligence service worth its weight would knowingly give away it source, which also makes the nature of trusting intelligence all the harder.
However, they can admit that they have intelliegnce, without providing details. Odile has suggested these guys were fired purely on the basis of their names and this is something totally different.
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