Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 04.02.2016, 11:05
Wallabies's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 3,199
Groaned at 317 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 3,292 Times in 1,564 Posts
Wallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
Why the hell has everyone got it in for Monsanto? If you listen to some people it is the sole cause of autism, diabetes, chemtrails, cancer, and Chipotle's poor sourcing and food-handling. It's quite laughable.
I thought they were also the reason for the oil price slump?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Wallabies for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 04.02.2016, 11:23
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 8,284
Groaned at 107 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 14,178 Times in 5,014 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
I thought they were also the reason for the oil price slump?
Oops, I knew I'd forgotten something.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04.02.2016, 13:09
xynth's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 753
Groaned at 37 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,681 Times in 503 Posts
xynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
Maybe the Chinese are actually better as they don't chase short-termist factors such as stock price but think long term if not ultra long term.
One only has to look at the actions of the Chinese banking, real estate and stock markets to see how the entire Chinese leadership from top to bottom chases pretty much nothing but short term goals. Greed is equal everywhere.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank xynth for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 04.02.2016, 13:56
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
To offset the hilariously sensational tone of the ZH nutters, here is the original Bloomberg article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ord-43-billion

I for one am not so sure that ChemChina is somehow better than Monsanto. It's out of the frying pan and into the fire really. Once the parent company drains the knowhow it can move research and development to the much better controlled and cheaper Chinese mainland for example.

From a geopolitical perspective, I'd (still) rather have US overlords than Chinese ones.









http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtscha...story/19652186


I cannot see anything hilarious or anything sensational in the ZH article, and so cannot see what you are talking about
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 04.02.2016, 14:53
RufusB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: In my head. And UK. Ex-Basel.
Posts: 1,500
Groaned at 33 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 1,948 Times in 836 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
Amen to that. Monsanto would have been a disaster for the Swiss employees. Chem China will most likely leave things be in the short term and also open the door to the relatively untapped Chinese market.


What about long term? It's surely going to have far-reaching effects. Just because there is an assumption that the situation will stay the same doesn't mean that it actually will. The Chinese will have their own people.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04.02.2016, 15:01
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: France
Posts: 9
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts
u360213 has no particular reputation at present
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
What about long term? It's surely going to have far-reaching effects. Just because there is an assumption that the situation will stay the same doesn't mean that it actually will. The Chinese will have their own people.
The long term remains to be seen of course, but my point was that in the short term Monsanto (1) has more cross-over functions = job cuts, (2) probably doesnt want an expensive HQ in Switzerland = job cuts At least with the Chinese they are likely to run a steady ship for a while to evaluate the new business that they have. The best people can move on if they don't like it I guess?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04.02.2016, 15:29
RufusB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: In my head. And UK. Ex-Basel.
Posts: 1,500
Groaned at 33 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 1,948 Times in 836 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
The long term remains to be seen of course, but my point was that in the short term Monsanto (1) has more cross-over functions = job cuts, (2) probably doesnt want an expensive HQ in Switzerland = job cuts At least with the Chinese they are likely to run a steady ship for a while to evaluate the new business that they have. The best people can move on if they don't like it I guess?


I understand, but why wouldn't the Chinese have the same approach to your two points thereby creating potentially the same issues? Mind you, we're all just speculating anyway. Long term, I think it's worrying. And "just moving on" is increasingly difficult for a lot of people.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04.02.2016, 16:30
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 9,257
Groaned at 215 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 16,436 Times in 6,009 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
One only has to look at the actions of the Chinese banking, real estate and stock markets to see how the entire Chinese leadership from top to bottom chases pretty much nothing but short term goals. Greed is equal everywhere.
I see the exact opposite: By now is China so much of a "business oriented communist state" that the local leaders are pressured by the local factories - for example to not control or implement those ecological laws the central government decided. Pretty much like governors and senators in the US pushing for their local interests. Any one who believes that it is one centrally ruled country is pretty far from reality. That said are certain companies of political interest and used in international relations. The Chinese love to make deals like "we buy your resources for a stable price but in return do you contract us for your infrastructure projects". A large crop company would fit in there perfectly...
__________________
There is a special place in Hull reserved for the guy who invented autocorrect.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 04.02.2016, 17:13
xynth's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 753
Groaned at 37 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,681 Times in 503 Posts
xynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
I see the exact opposite: By now is China so much of a "business oriented communist state" that the local leaders are pressured by the local factories - for example to not control or implement those ecological laws the central government decided. Pretty much like governors and senators in the US pushing for their local interests. Any one who believes that it is one centrally ruled country is pretty far from reality. That said are certain companies of political interest and used in international relations. The Chinese love to make deals like "we buy your resources for a stable price but in return do you contract us for your infrastructure projects". A large crop company would fit in there perfectly...
Sure, I never said that China is not business oriented. They are just as much business oriented as the US is. That's exactly why I wrote that I do not believe they value long term sustainability as opposed to short term profit any more than western businesses do.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04.02.2016, 22:10
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,516
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,527 Times in 4,670 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
I see the exact opposite: By now is China so much of a "business oriented communist state" that the local leaders are pressured by the local factories - for example to not control or implement those ecological laws the central government decided. Pretty much like governors and senators in the US pushing for their local interests. Any one who believes that it is one centrally ruled country is pretty far from reality. That said are certain companies of political interest and used in international relations. The Chinese love to make deals like "we buy your resources for a stable price but in return do you contract us for your infrastructure projects". A large crop company would fit in there perfectly...

China is no different from any other country!


I assume you know the story of Ling Jihua who was the Chinese Presidents chief of staff.
He is now under corruption investigation.


His downfall began when his 23 year old son had an auto accident in Bejing.
He was driving a Ferrari with two young lady passengers; one of whom was rumoured to be naked.


Ling Jihua brother (Ling Wancheng) is now rumoured to be a refugee in the USA spilling lots of secrets obtained from his brother.
It is also rumoured he has a hoard of many secret Chinese Govt. documents to be used for leverage; although how he will avoid US agencies grabbing the documents is less than clear!


As I wrote; I see no differences
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05.02.2016, 00:34
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 621
Groaned at 98 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 395 Times in 215 Posts
Capo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthy
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
To offset the hilariously sensational tone of the ZH nutters, here is the original Bloomberg article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ord-43-billion

I for one am not so sure that ChemChina is somehow better than Monsanto. It's out of the frying pan and into the fire really. Once the parent company drains the knowhow it can move research and development to the much better controlled and cheaper Chinese mainland for example.

From a geopolitical perspective, I'd (still) rather have US overlords than Chinese ones.
Quote:
View Post
One only has to look at the actions of the Chinese banking, real estate and stock markets to see how the entire Chinese leadership from top to bottom chases pretty much nothing but short term goals. Greed is equal everywhere.
Quote:
View Post
Sure, I never said that China is not business oriented. They are just as much business oriented as the US is. That's exactly why I wrote that I do not believe they value long term sustainability as opposed to short term profit any more than western businesses do.
The Chinese have bought Volvo from the Swedes some time ago. They have injected a lot of money in the firm but left the product development, the management, and the manufacturing in Sweden. Now Volvo is flourishing by launching very good products and selling more cars. If they open manufacturing plants in China then the company will be even better.

There are TONS and TONS of Chinese students in the USA getting their MBAs at the top business schools, doings PhDs, and getting experience in the Western world to then go back to China and lead these companies. These are very smart individuals and it would be very naive to assume that they don't know the value of the knowledge base, tradition, quality, and reputation of the companies they are acquiring.

Last edited by Capo; 05.02.2016 at 03:07.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Capo for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 05.02.2016, 03:11
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
What about long term? It's surely going to have far-reaching effects. Just because there is an assumption that the situation will stay the same doesn't mean that it actually will. The Chinese will have their own people.

The Chinese Prime Minister on a visit to Switzerland 2 yrs ago made it clear that the PRC wants to use Switzerland as a kind of bridgehead into Europe, outside the E.U. but very well inside Europe. That the PRC would increase its presence here quite heavily
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 05.02.2016, 09:46
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,516
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,527 Times in 4,670 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
The Chinese Prime Minister on a visit to Switzerland 2 yrs ago made it clear that the PRC wants to use Switzerland as a kind of bridgehead into Europe, outside the E.U. but very well inside Europe. That the PRC would increase its presence here quite heavily
The joke will be on them if the bilaterals are cancelled!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 05.02.2016, 10:55
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,400
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,576 Times in 6,201 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
The Chinese Prime Minister on a visit to Switzerland 2 yrs ago made it clear that the PRC wants to use Switzerland as a kind of bridgehead into Europe, outside the E.U. but very well inside Europe. That the PRC would increase its presence here quite heavily
But of course you must remember that smothering people with rose-scented compliments is very much the Chinese way in diplomacy. I'm sure they do recognize the value of doing business in Switzerland but this doesn't mean they'll go along with everything or won't put their own interests first.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05.02.2016, 12:30
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,472
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,324 Times in 5,675 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
But of course you must remember that smothering people with rose-scented compliments is very much the Chinese way in diplomacy. I'm sure they do recognize the value of doing business in Switzerland but this doesn't mean they'll go along with everything or won't put their own interests first.
the chinese will put their own interests first, and the swiss will put their own interest first. and look, they find a way to work together that is to their own mutual benefits and interest.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 05.02.2016, 20:28
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 17
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
auburnCH has no particular reputation at present
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Surely I'm not the only one who finds this whole Syngenta merger creepy and frightening to say the least, for a number of reasons:

- The Chinese government obtains access to all intellectual property on seeds / chemicals etc.
- China acquires control of huge amounts of agricultural farmland all over the world, formerly owned by the west.
- China can halt the sale of critical pesticides to competitors in the west at any time if western governments / businesses do not go along with their political wishes. Food shortages?!
- China has a horrible environmental record, and now they control one of the world's largest agrichemical companies.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Syngenta has always been sinister. It has poisoned the food supply, knowingly killed bees with their reckless neonics and put small farmers around the world out of business in order to push their overpriced, annually-required parasitic seed composites.

But now with this ChemChina merger -- unbelievably -- it has become even more sinister. I'm a bit speechless at the notion that the regulatory and security bodies in the West let this go through without a blink. What happened.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at auburnCH for this post:
  #37  
Old 05.02.2016, 20:38
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 8,790
Groaned at 189 Times in 172 Posts
Thanked 24,222 Times in 6,522 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Syngenta isn't the only company selling GM seeds and fertiliser stuff; we won't all starve to death if it the Chinese government decides to throw away millions of dollars and shut the company down for a laugh.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 05.02.2016, 20:55
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,472
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,324 Times in 5,675 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
Surely I'm not the only one who finds this whole Syngenta merger creepy and frightening to say the least, for a number of reasons:

- The Chinese government obtains access to all intellectual property on seeds / chemicals etc.
- China acquires control of huge amounts of agricultural farmland all over the world, formerly owned by the west.
- China can halt the sale of critical pesticides to competitors in the west at any time if western governments / businesses do not go along with their political wishes. Food shortages?!
- China has a horrible environmental record, and now they control one of the world's largest agrichemical companies.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Syngenta has always been sinister. It has poisoned the food supply, knowingly killed bees with their reckless neonics and put small farmers around the world out of business in order to push their overpriced, annually-required parasitic seed composites.

But now with this ChemChina merger -- unbelievably -- it has become even more sinister. I'm a bit speechless at the notion that the regulatory and security bodies in the West let this go through without a blink. What happened.
what alarmist twaddle. maybe stop reading daily mail and watching fox news!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 05.02.2016, 20:59
Wallabies's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 3,199
Groaned at 317 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 3,292 Times in 1,564 Posts
Wallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
The Chinese have bought Volvo from the Swedes some time ago. They have injected a lot of money in the firm but left the product development, the management, and the manufacturing in Sweden. Now Volvo is flourishing by launching very good products and selling more cars. If they open manufacturing plants in China then the company will be even better..
Actually the chinese brought it from an American company who were struggling to be able to manage owning Volvo plus a number of companies. Since then the chinese have shown to be more competent at running the company then their predecessors
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05.02.2016, 21:10
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,516
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,527 Times in 4,670 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: China to buy Syngenta ??

Quote:
View Post
Surely I'm not the only one who finds this whole Syngenta merger creepy and frightening to say the least, for a number of reasons:

- The Chinese government obtains access to all intellectual property on seeds / chemicals etc.
- China acquires control of huge amounts of agricultural farmland all over the world, formerly owned by the west.
- China can halt the sale of critical pesticides to competitors in the west at any time if western governments / businesses do not go along with their political wishes. Food shortages?!
- China has a horrible environmental record, and now they control one of the world's largest agrichemical companies.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Syngenta has always been sinister. It has poisoned the food supply, knowingly killed bees with their reckless neonics and put small farmers around the world out of business in order to push their overpriced, annually-required parasitic seed composites.

But now with this ChemChina merger -- unbelievably -- it has become even more sinister. I'm a bit speechless at the notion that the regulatory and security bodies in the West let this go through without a blink. What happened.
"knowingly killed bees with their reckless neonics" You reaally believe they would kill bees and in turn their own plant related business which relies on bees to pollinate?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
china, syngenta




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0