Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 22.08.2016, 09:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,118
Groaned at 189 Times in 148 Posts
Thanked 6,084 Times in 3,289 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
Seems the locals are not wanting any immigrates, not sure if it just Muslims or any of us non-Swiss??
They're enamoured with the Anglo-Saxon types though, or at least this is what EF made me believe.

They're not really foreigners, you know.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #122  
Old 22.08.2016, 11:40
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 953
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 959 Times in 459 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
They're not really foreigners, you know.
Oh, they're foreigners alright, but 'good foreigners'. A bit like an illegitimate cousin or sibling that will be invited around for dinner as long as only family is present.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Aeneas for this useful post:
  #123  
Old 22.08.2016, 12:00
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,146
Groaned at 926 Times in 722 Posts
Thanked 19,737 Times in 9,483 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
Seems the locals are not wanting any immigrates, not sure if it just Muslims or any of us non-Swiss??

Asylum centre plans shelved after Swiss village protests

http://www.thelocal.ch/20160817/asyl...lage-protests#

Swiss village tells landlords: don’t rent homes to refugees
http://www.thelocal.ch/20160714/swis...nt-to-refugees

'Switzerland must shut itself off with barbed wire'
http://www.thelocal.ch/20160503/swit...asylum-seekers
That's what you get following The Local!

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #124  
Old 22.08.2016, 17:01
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St Gallen Kanton
Posts: 640
Groaned at 143 Times in 97 Posts
Thanked 1,107 Times in 506 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
That is completely not true. Nobody voted for the Nazis with the goal to send anyone to a death camp. In 1930 did nobody expect or foresee anything remotely as bad... Germans were fed up with a democratic but completely defunct republic, high unemployment, poverty, hyperinflation... so more and more people looked for a more and more extreme alternative approach to a state. The two alternatives known at the time were communism as in Russia and fascism as in Italy. The idea of having a strong leader instead of the endless debates in parliament was more appealing and kind of how it worked in the monarchy before... so this was the winning idea.
Claiming that the people who voted for the Nazis were all raving supporters and fully aware and buying into the whole "blood and honour" stuff is not just historically not true - it is dangerous even today. The one point we can really learn from the end of the Weimar republic is that it takes much less to end up with some crazy dictator than anyone predicted. "Yeah, he is a bit weird, but not dangerous, we surely can control him" is exactly what the German conservatives were saying about Hitler when they put him into power. We all know how this turned out and that's why it is so important that parliamentary systems have all the checks in place to make sure they are not stripped of their power - even if the leader who does it was democratically elected. Just have a look at Turkey right now... they are going down the fascism route much harder and faster than any EU country.
True - keep in mind, many politicians have quirky fantasies (think of the UKIP MEP who suggested recently that sticking pigs heads on all the EU border fences, to ward off migrants) but in most cases, people believe the checks and balances in place will prevent the policies they don't agree with, and enable the policies they do agree with. IMO if the concentration camps had been what turned people to vote for Nazis, then the holocaust would have begun much earlier (and, suffice to say, been far more deadly).

The point trev was making ( I think) is that a lot of German people voted for the Nazis as a vote against the establishment - and thought the nastier aspects couldn't come to pass. They knew better only too late. That's the pattern that some commentators say is being repeated - people are depending on checks and balances they don't understand, hoping it'll be enough.

Quote:
View Post
I call the SVP nationalists because I (personal opinion) don't think they are truly racists. Racism is a deep, nasty feeling/believe. Nationalists who fulminate against foreigners are mostly scared of the difference, scared of jobloss and other possible losses and badly informed. People used to rant about black people and then end it by saying "but you're the exception" to my ex-husband. While he was even kind of flattered, I used to be highly annoyed. That - to me - is the Swiss kind of racism and while it's a pain in the neck it's not as dangerous as elsewhere.
edit: Mr. Blocher for example knows very well, how important the foreigners are for Switzerland. He employs them!
I disagree - there is a way to be angry about the effect on jobs, and that requires directing anger at those who pass the laws, not those who are subjected to them. That's a true nationalist, in my eyes.
Re your ex-husband, how did he feel that he was being castigated and his worth questioned, before people knew him? Its all well and good in the end, but the fact that an opinion is made prior to knowledge about said person, and based exclusively on their skin colour/religion/culture is, in my eyes, racist.

Quote:
View Post
Is there any reason that the EU should be as generous and cooperative as possible?
Other than the fact that the EU will not want to make an exit from the bloc sound painless to anyone else thinking of it, it is not only in the EUs interests, but its responsibility to drive a hard bargain.
Reality is that the UK is not in a particularly strong bargaining position and all this talk of the EU being 'caustic and uncooperative' is really just preparing the ground by those who swore blind that the UK was in a strong bargaining position during the referendum campaign.
It was one of several porkies sold to the British public, IMHO; right up there with "the cheque is in the post" and "I promise I won't do it in your mouth".
None whatsoever. People don't yet realise that at the negotiations it will very much be Britain Vs The EU, with both vying to get a better deal for themselves. And in such a discussion, the EU has more resources, more experience, more incentive, and less to lose.
Case in point, the UK Government DExEU (Department for Exit of the EU) has been meeting in Starbucks, for gods sake. They don't even have permanent offices (claim argued by DExEU):
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...s-big-question
The EU is the heavy favourite amongst most contemporary commentators, im afraid.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank J2488 for this useful post:
  #125  
Old 24.08.2016, 17:29
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

About Austria, I see they are implementing measures to see to it that they are not an attractive destination for those who don't intend to contribute anything. Is that Nationalism, or just sane management of one's nation?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #126  
Old 24.08.2016, 17:32
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,411
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,611 Times in 6,217 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
About Austria, I see they are implementing measures to see to it that they are not an attractive destination for those who don't intend to contribute anything. Is that Nationalism, or just sane management of one's nation?


or just basic survival instinct?

there is only so long you can live in la la land and at some point, when the brown stuf hits the fan, even the most la la leaders have to admit that if they want to survive, pragmatism must overrule their ivory tower philosophies.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 24.08.2016, 17:54
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 953
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 959 Times in 459 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
there is only so long you can live in la la land and at some point, when the brown stuf hits the fan, even the most la la leaders have to admit that if they want to survive, pragmatism must overrule their ivory tower philosophies.
Don't know about that. The USSR managed to block out reality for 60 years, evangelising the 'practical' joys of the centrally planned economy, until it tried some change, too little, too late.
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 24.08.2016, 18:05
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
or just basic survival instinct?

there is only so long you can live in la la land and at some point, when the brown stuf hits the fan, even the most la la leaders have to admit that if they want to survive, pragmatism must overrule their ivory tower philosophies.
What is somewhat impressive to see in Austria is how both leading parties actually took the pulse of their population, and adjusted to align themselves to ongoing sentiments. In other places, like Germany, the parties don't seem to bother to take a consensus of sentiments, but would rather dictate to the public what their sentiments should be.

So if this responsiveness to the people is considered Nationalistic and Populist, its actually alright. We need more of it, not less.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #129  
Old 24.08.2016, 18:30
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 953
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 959 Times in 459 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
What is somewhat impressive to see in Austria is how both leading parties actually took the pulse of their population, and adjusted to align themselves to ongoing sentiments. In other places, like Germany, the parties don't seem to bother to take a consensus of sentiments, but would rather dictate to the public what their sentiments should be.
Bending to populist sentiments is as often a bad idea as not - the property bubble in Ireland was largely a product of government policies that helped to fuel the bubble, rather than defuse it, because popular demand sought to make it easier to buy a home. Both popular and dumb.

Secondly the German and Austrian governments are politically in different places - Merkel still enjoys widespread support and she has few threats both inside and outside of the CDU. In Austria, both the SPÖ and ÖVP are currently trailing the FPÖ and so need to do something radical to keep the latter from winning the next election.
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 24.08.2016, 18:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 984
Groaned at 44 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 2,566 Times in 1,170 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
What is somewhat impressive to see in Austria is how both leading parties actually took the pulse of their population, and adjusted to align themselves to ongoing sentiments.
Do you know much about Austria? Have you spent any time there?
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 24.08.2016, 19:03
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,411
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,611 Times in 6,217 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
What is somewhat impressive to see in Austria is how both leading parties actually took the pulse of their population, and adjusted to align themselves to ongoing sentiments. In other places, like Germany, the parties don't seem to bother to take a consensus of sentiments, but would rather dictate to the public what their sentiments should be.

So if this responsiveness to the people is considered Nationalistic and Populist, its actually alright. We need more of it, not less.
One big difference is that Austria has a very strong right wing party that actually already was part of a governing coalition for a short strint and could easily swing back to power. The other parties are prepared to do what it takes to prevent that party growing further, even if this involves stealing their policies.

In Germany the right wing opposition is still only in the start up phase and very unlikely to be in power for the forseeable future. Thus the government can still get away with doing its own thing for a while yet. Maybe in the longer run their actions will help grow this opposition to a governing force, but then this party might equally be a temporary thing they think, and they just need to weather the storm. Anyway, long term strategic thought has never been a strength of politicians.

In Hungary the right is even stringer than in Austria. Orban is actually a rather middle of the road guy but he knows that the right wing would have eaten him alive at the polls if he hadn't stolen their policies wholescale.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #132  
Old 24.08.2016, 20:03
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
Do you know much about Austria? Have you spent any time there?
I was referring to their recent stance on a number of issues, so am familiar with what their gov has been up to.

I've spent some time there, mostly in resorts. Why do you ask? Have they turned into a Nazi state?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #133  
Old 25.08.2016, 01:43
Mark75's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: by the lake (either one)
Posts: 2,409
Groaned at 44 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 2,897 Times in 1,267 Posts
Mark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
About Austria, I see they are implementing measures to see to it that they are not an attractive destination for those who don't intend to contribute anything. Is that Nationalism, or just sane management of one's nation?
Sane management.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Mark75 for this useful post:
  #134  
Old 25.08.2016, 04:07
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 984
Groaned at 44 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 2,566 Times in 1,170 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
I was referring to their recent stance on a number of issues, so am familiar with what their gov has been up to.

I've spent some time there, mostly in resorts. Why do you ask? Have they turned into a Nazi state?
I've spent quite a bit of time there and it's a very divided country. Tyroleans don't relate to the Viennese, and in many instances, totally oppose their views. This particular division goes back centuries.

Linz is the industrial power house and Graz is a law unto itself.

To understand the political make-up of modern day Austria, you need to read about these divisions from the Napoleonic wars, Andreas Hofer, the Tyrolean Rebellion of 1809, through to the death of Jorg Haider.

I remember watching interviews with Haider on Austrian tv in the early 1990's and pretending to friends that I didn't understand what he was about. I've never seen so many men speak someone's name then spit.

I had a good friend in Salzburg back in those days, who has a beautiful Bavarian wife. Since their three children had been in their late teens, his wife had spent every Christmas with her parents in Brazil, because they were "no longer welcome in Europe", and he spent the holidays with his 4 childhood friends, one of whom was a priest. I'd never before seen a priest spit at saying someone's name, but he did everytime he mentioned Haider.


What you are witnessing now is Haider's legacy.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #135  
Old 25.08.2016, 09:17
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,118
Groaned at 189 Times in 148 Posts
Thanked 6,084 Times in 3,289 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
Tyroleans don't relate to the Viennese, and in many instances, totally oppose their views. This particular division goes back centuries.
.
Nobody in that country relates to the Viennese, except for the Viennese themselves.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #136  
Old 25.08.2016, 10:27
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
I've spent quite a bit of time there and it's a very divided country. Tyroleans don't relate to the Viennese, and in many instances, totally oppose their views. This particular division goes back centuries.

What you are witnessing now is Haider's legacy.
I'm aware of that. Not sure what your point is. Haider equals bad, or something?

What you call a division is an indication of a proper democracy. It means there is some form of plurality and there is representation of views and interests. You'll find this same "division" in just about any developed democracy. The classic "division" is between city centres and rural areas, or the general population and its ruling elites. Which proper western democracy does not have that same "division"?

I really like how Austria bucked the EU trend and refused to drink its Koolaid. It shows intelligence. Should Haider be thanked for that?
__________________
exceptio probat regulam

Last edited by Phos; 25.08.2016 at 10:50.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #137  
Old 25.08.2016, 10:31
JagWaugh's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 3,987
Groaned at 31 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 7,233 Times in 2,914 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
Nobody in that country relates to the Viennese, except for the Viennese themselves.
And even then, many Viennese need a course of therapy until they can relate to themselves.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank JagWaugh for this useful post:
  #138  
Old 25.08.2016, 14:27
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 953
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 959 Times in 459 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
I really like how Austria bucked the EU trend and refused to drink its Koolaid. It shows intelligence. Should Haider be thanked for that?
You keep on telling yourself that and ignore the far more plausible reasons why Austria differs from countries like Germany...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Aeneas for this useful post:
  #139  
Old 25.08.2016, 14:40
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 984
Groaned at 44 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 2,566 Times in 1,170 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
I'm aware of that. Not sure what your point is. Haider equals bad, or something?
That's for you to research and find out for yourself.

Many of us who were aware of Haider relatively early on, and followed his career, will have come to our own conclusions.

The dynamic of Austria isn't strictly city vs rural, as the Bishops of Salzburg were very powerful in their day. Tyroleans regarded Innsbruck, their state capital, as their capital city rather than the far flung Vienna, but with a nod to Salzburg.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #140  
Old 25.08.2016, 14:46
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland only second to Austria in the Rise of Nationalism

Quote:
View Post
That's for you to research and find out for yourself.

Many of us who were aware of Haider relatively early on, and followed his career, will have come to our own conclusions.

The dynamic of Austria isn't strictly city vs rural, as the Bishops of Salzburg were very powerful in their day. Tyroleans regarded Innsbruck, their state capital, as their capital city rather than the far flung Vienna, but with a nod to Salzburg.

Not sure that is necessary, as I'm already pleased by actions its government is taking. It already exhibits some sense of responsibility for its country and people.

So, I am not exactly uneducated in regards to European and World history, and Austria's role.

I think a Hofer win in October will be a crucial counter-balance to the path of lunacy Europe's current leaders are taking it on.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where is the best place in Switzerland to watch fullmoon rise? Helianthus Travel/day trips/free time 15 04.05.2012 14:52
Taser use on the rise in Switzerland The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 10.02.2012 14:48
Life expectancy on the rise in Switzerland The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 25.11.2011 13:56
ATM theft on the rise in Switzerland The Local Swiss news via The Local 2 03.11.2011 19:44
Explained: the rise and rise of the Swiss franc The Local Swiss news via The Local 2 23.09.2011 20:57


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0