Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 04.07.2016, 20:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,366
Groaned at 368 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 22,374 Times in 10,068 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Omg - qed

oh and welcome to EF Terry- great first post

Last edited by Odile; 04.07.2016 at 20:47.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04.07.2016, 20:42
JagWaugh's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 3,984
Groaned at 31 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 7,230 Times in 2,913 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
Do you feel the same about electrical goods that can electrocute you or your child, toxic products or clothes that can be easily set alight, etc?
Or fake Bomb detectors?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29459896
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04.07.2016, 21:38
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,086
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,069 Times in 1,057 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
Simple, if a manufacturer falsify their products, don't but it, sue them, buy from other manufacturer, make all your friends know that that product sucks, denounce it online, etc..
Son if there is no standard how do you know it's false? If there are no inspection who do you know it happens....

Now you can go on with your free market bla bla, but I and most Europeans care about what we put into our mouths and what we feed our children, so yes there will be standards and yes companies will be required to follow then. I'd bet on the burocrats any day over what you are proposing.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #44  
Old 04.07.2016, 22:00
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,481
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,335 Times in 5,680 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Standards are important, both for safety and to enable trade. I think the work done to standardise and remove barriers to trade is perhaps one of the least controversial aspects of the European project.

However, I do think that all the work on standardisation and safety etc. is capable of being carried out independently of whether there is a full freedom of movement of people.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #45  
Old 04.07.2016, 22:01
Kosti's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oranje County
Posts: 488
Groaned at 27 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 871 Times in 364 Posts
Kosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
Well, guess what, even with all this regulation you are probably buying olive oil bottled in Italy, with an Italian brand, that is in fact a mixture of Greek, Spanish, and Turkish olive oil...

Why you have to spend money with bureaucrats drafting rules on subjects that they don't have a clue about?

And for your information, mozzarella is a mushy white cheese in Italy, whereas in some other countries it can be harder and yellow. So, are we going to forbid the other one just because it doesn't follow the original Italian recipe??? If the labeling is stating the ingredients and where it's made, what's the problem? Why you need to pay people to take care of you if you can by your own decide which mozzarella you like the most?
If you actually bother research your rants, the EU does not forbid any cheese recipe, just specifies what can be called Mozzarella di Bufala Campana. It doesnt even have to be made in Italy, and doesnt apply to other types of mozarella cheese.

If I got a hole punch, and some yellow food coloring, can I sell you some "Emmentaler"?

Just out of curiosity, what do you put in your mouth?

And if you have inside knowledge of how clueless the bureaucrats are, why arent you selling your story to the Daily Mail?

Last edited by Kosti; 04.07.2016 at 22:13.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Kosti for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 04.07.2016, 22:13
Kosti's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oranje County
Posts: 488
Groaned at 27 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 871 Times in 364 Posts
Kosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
However, I do think that all the work on standardisation and safety etc. is capable of being carried out independently of whether there is a full freedom of movement of people.
Worldwide, its perhaps the most direct example of free trade helping to increase social mobility of lower income folks.

With respect to the European project, the most significant way to ensure fewer tensions for a long long time is people from different countries actually living in other countries.

Edit: If the standardization aim were the least controversial, then why all the wailing about "laws being made in Brussels"?
The EU directives are for this purpose.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 05.07.2016, 11:42
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 947
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 955 Times in 456 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
I see the EU stance on free movement of people as a genuine attempt to equalize the effects of globalization within the EU, and eliminate barriers for people who want to work and study. It links trade and people in a way other trade agreements do not, to the benefit of poorer Europeans, by giving them more mobility.
Well, not really. Poorer people tend to be less educated, which in turn means less likely to speak foreign languages. Given Europe's largely hetro-lingustic culture it means that unless you are moving to a country that already speaks your language, you're going to be at a disadvantage.

This is not to say that the poor do not benefit too, especially given the prevalence of languages such as English (spoken as a second language by 38% of the EU), but overall freedom of movement really benefits the better educated and wealthier than the poorer.
Quote:
View Post
Simple, if a manufacturer falsify their products, don't but it, sue them, buy from other manufacturer, make all your friends know that that product sucks, denounce it online, etc..
If you're alive to do so.

Reminds me of the old one about the solution to stupid people is to take all the warning labels off all the products and let the problem sort itself out.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Aeneas for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 05.07.2016, 11:59
Kosti's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oranje County
Posts: 488
Groaned at 27 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 871 Times in 364 Posts
Kosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
Well, not really. Poorer people tend to be less educated, which in turn means less likely to speak foreign languages. Given Europe's largely hetro-lingustic culture it means that unless you are moving to a country that already speaks your language, you're going to be at a disadvantage.

This is not to say that the poor do not benefit too, especially given the prevalence of languages such as English (spoken as a second language by 38% of the EU), but overall freedom of movement really benefits the better educated and wealthier than the poorer.
That is also my point. The EU has a mandate to improve conditions across Europe, so it can help poorer people on an European scale. Yes, this benefits the more educated ones. The EU does help with structural funds, but these are puny compared to the discretionary spending of the national goverments.

How to use the wealth generated by the common market is upto the national governments. If this is not plowed back into social investments to give people chances to cope with the effects of globalization, the anger is expressed in such votes. What can the EU do to enforce how a country uses its money? And it doesn't. To do that, in my opinion would be truly undemocratic.

Since the 90s there has been no significant difference between New Labor and the Tories.
Blair - Austerity lite, war heavy
Cameron - Austerity heavy, war lite
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kosti for this useful post:
  #49  
Old 05.07.2016, 12:08
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 947
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 955 Times in 456 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
That is also my point. The EU has a mandate to improve conditions across Europe, so it can help poorer people on an European scale. Yes, this benefits the more educated ones. The EU does help with structural funds, but these are puny compared to the discretionary spending of the national goverments.
Actually your point was that freedom of movement specifically benefits poorer Europeans, by giving them more mobility, which specifically it doesn't really.
Quote:
Since the 90s there has been no significant difference between New Labor and the Tories.
You'll find that ideological consensus throughout Western democracies and it was a direct result of the end of the Cold War.

Seems to be breaking apart now, with seemingly a return of 'the third position'.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 05.07.2016, 12:13
Kosti's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oranje County
Posts: 488
Groaned at 27 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 871 Times in 364 Posts
Kosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
Actually your point was that freedom of movement specifically benefits poorer Europeans, by giving them more mobility, which specifically it doesn't really.

You'll find that ideological consensus throughout Western democracies and it was a direct result of the end of the Cold War.

Seems to be breaking apart now, with seemingly a return of 'the third position'.
Am not sure why you insist on telling me what my point was ... but nevertheless to clarify again ...

In my original post - "poorer Europeans" .. i.e. Romanians are poorer than Germans, and the common market including free movement as one of its conditions helps Romanians in other ways than just being a market for German companies.

The "ideological consensus" that has come about in the US and UK certainly doesnt exist in everywhere in the west.
Certainly not for the Germans, Dutch and Swiss, to give some examples.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 05.07.2016, 12:28
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 947
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 955 Times in 456 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
In my original post - "poorer Europeans" .. i.e. Romanians are poorer than Germans, and the common market including free movement as one of its conditions helps Romanians in other ways than just being a market for German companies.
Maybe I missed it but where did you mention anything other than freedom of movement?
Quote:
The "ideological consensus" that has come about in the US and UK certainly doesnt exist in everywhere in the west.
Certainly not for the Germans, Dutch and Swiss, to give some examples.
Really? So Gerhard Schröder was a classic socialist then? And his reform of employment law and cuts in welfare were classic leftist policies, I suppose?

I think you'll find that the move from traditional socialism to more 'social democratic' and pretty much 'Tory Lite' was something that occurred throughout the West after the collapse of communism. Parties that once were hardened socialist or communist began to move to the centre.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05.07.2016, 12:56
Kosti's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oranje County
Posts: 488
Groaned at 27 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 871 Times in 364 Posts
Kosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
Maybe I missed it but where did you mention anything other than freedom of movement?

Really? So Gerhard Schröder was a classic socialist then? And his reform of employment law and cuts in welfare were classic leftist policies, I suppose?

I think you'll find that the move from traditional socialism to more 'social democratic' and pretty much 'Tory Lite' was something that occurred throughout the West after the collapse of communism. Parties that once were hardened socialist or communist began to move to the centre.
My post says that freedom of movement links trade and people. I have then elaborated on that.

Unlike the UK, Germany has a range of parties, and proportional representation. If someone thought that Schroeder had taken the SPD too rightwards with his reforms, then they were, and are, free to vote for a more left party.

So I dont see how the representational vacuum that exists in the US and UK, has happened in Germany.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05.07.2016, 15:12
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 627
Groaned at 98 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 399 Times in 218 Posts
Capo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthy
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
Do you feel the same about electrical goods that can electrocute you or your child, toxic products or clothes that can be easily set alight, etc?
Most of the technical norms were defined by not-for-profit private institutions such as the SAE, the DIN, the IEEE, etc.. So manufactures have a set of safety norms that they may choose to follow. Having a set of EU regulations is not a guarantee that the manufacturer is following them or falsifying stuff. In other words, let the free market work and consumers will choose what is best for them. In the end the result will be better without wasting huge sums of tax payer money in Brussels.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05.07.2016, 15:28
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 627
Groaned at 98 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 399 Times in 218 Posts
Capo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthy
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
Son if there is no standard how do you know it's false? If there are no inspection who do you know it happens....

Now you can go on with your free market bla bla, but I and most Europeans care about what we put into our mouths and what we feed our children, so yes there will be standards and yes companies will be required to follow then. I'd bet on the burocrats any day over what you are proposing.
As I said in my previous post, all these standards were set a long time ago by private institutions.

My point is that you can have all the EU regulations that you want, and still there can be manufactures falsifying it. What about the just recent episode of horse meat being sold as beef??? Was the EU regulation useful whatsoever to prevent such case? No.

There was a case not a long time ago about the pangasius fish from Vietman that was imported to Italy. It is considerably cheaper than most of the other white fish available in Europe. Domestic producers started to accuse it as being dangerous for health because they said the fish farms in Vietnan did not follow EU regulations and the fish was toxic with heavy metals such as chrome. This story was spread out through the media without a single case of intoxication or testing. Guess what? A team from the University of Rome analysed many lots of pansagius fish from different markets and they found out that 100% of the fish analyzed was healthy.

Go to any Chinatown in Paris, Milan, etc., and you will find plenty of products that don't follow EU regulations.

Last edited by Capo; 05.07.2016 at 15:53.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Capo for this useful post:
  #55  
Old 05.07.2016, 15:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 627
Groaned at 98 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 399 Times in 218 Posts
Capo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthy
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
If you actually bother research your rants, the EU does not forbid any cheese recipe, just specifies what can be called Mozzarella di Bufala Campana. It doesnt even have to be made in Italy, and doesnt apply to other types of mozarella cheese.

If I got a hole punch, and some yellow food coloring, can I sell you some "Emmentaler"?

Just out of curiosity, what do you put in your mouth?

And if you have inside knowledge of how clueless the bureaucrats are, why arent you selling your story to the Daily Mail?
"Mozzarella di Bufala Campana" not made in Italy?! So, why you need the regulations them?

The people who better know "the rules" are the consumers and the producers. Why you have to spend a lot of money to have a team in Brussels disturbing it?

Again, I am not against the standards, but my point is that there is no proof that the European countries are better off because of these costly EU regulations.

In regard to the Mozzarella, in Italy there are plenty of agricultural cooperatives and consortiums that by their own free will established standards on what can be named "Mozzarelladi Bufala Campana d.o.p". So I don't give a f@%k and won't trust on any EU regulations while buying my beloved Mozzarella.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05.07.2016, 15:50
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 627
Groaned at 98 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 399 Times in 218 Posts
Capo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthy
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post

If you're alive to do so.

Reminds me of the old one about the solution to stupid people is to take all the warning labels off all the products and let the problem sort itself out.
Again, what it has to do with REGULATIONS? It was a culpable crime, not about not having a standard.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05.07.2016, 15:58
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 947
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 955 Times in 456 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
My post says that freedom of movement links trade and people. I have then elaborated on that.
Where did you do this?
Quote:
Unlike the UK, Germany has a range of parties, and proportional representation. If someone thought that Schroeder had taken the SPD too rightwards with his reforms, then they were, and are, free to vote for a more left party.
Except with the consensus move to the centre more left wing parties are outliers who will never get elected, unlike their Cold War mainstream counterparts.
Quote:
So I dont see how the representational vacuum that exists in the US and UK, has happened in Germany.
So how far apart are the main parties of government in Germany?
Quote:
View Post
Most of the technical norms were defined by not-for-profit private institutions such as the SAE, the DIN, the IEEE, etc..
Do you have a source for the claim that most of these 'norms' are defined by private institutions or would it be fair to call bulls**t on this?
Quote:
View Post
"Mozzarella di Bufala Campana" not made in Italy?! So, why you need the regulations them?
To protect the consumer from being sold mislabelled products? Not that complicated, TBH. Such legal standards have been around long before the EU.
Quote:
View Post
Again, what it has to do with REGULATIONS? It was a culpable crime, not about not having a standard.
So it's only a crime if an unsafe product kills someone? If they survive, there's no foul? Interesting logic.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05.07.2016, 16:14
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,481
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,335 Times in 5,680 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

No doubt the EU is influential in standard setting, but it is not the full story.

Here's a pre-Brexit article:

http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog...kes-the-rules/

and see also:

http://www.adamsmith.org/stuck-in-the-middle-with-eu/

The Brexit argument is for the UK to have representation for itself at the higher levels instead of having to rely on EU representatives.

"In the coming referendum campaign we will hear much of what the EU supposedly does for us, yet the reality is that from disability rights to car standards and bank solvency, a myriad of global organisations now drive most of what we implement as law. The EU lacks the resources to regulate to this extent so it outsources and copies global agreements verbatim. We do not need the EU to do that for us and in all instances we are better off having an independent right of veto and parliamentary scrutiny.

There is little likelihood of us leaving the Single Market in the first instance — a UK government after a Leave vote will be seeking an evolutionary Leave proposition starting with an EEA position. But what we gain is our full voice where it matters and an ability to forge our own trade deals in future, albeit using the established principle of continuity (after secession) to safeguard those third country trade agreements the EU already has in place on our behalf.

Contrast that with what we are being asked to remain in. The offer on the table is to stay in the EU as we have always known it. That means obeying all these global rules and regulations with a muffled voice in how they are made, and often no independent right of veto. Not only are we constrained at the top tables of global governance where Norway, Australia and others have their full voice, we are also barely heard at the top table of the EU since the Eurozone members have primacy over policy and we cannot even get a reasonable renegotiation outcome when threatening to exit.

David Cameron’s and George Osborne’s attempts at reforming the EU have failed on almost every level such that they barely mention the renegotiation outcome during the referendum campaign. The EU cannot be reformed, it will resist any attempt to be reformed, and it cannot serve the best interests of its members or even Europe. The EU is now about the preservation of the EU political body that serves to advance the supranation-building agenda of its architects.

The rhetoric about the UK being isolated and going it alone sound out of place when you consider the global landscape. Other countries around the world “obey all the rules of the club” (the global one) yet they are not obliged to surrender their independent voice at the top table or neutralise their democracy to the same extent the UK has as an EU member. And their chain of accountability is shorter, with just one step from national level to global level.

What we can also say is that if the EU didn’t exist, we would not now be in a rush to invent it. And if it did exist, we wouldn’t join it. We would be looking to formalise and democratise the UK’s global governance involvement, bringing the UK’s full voice to it as an open, global trading nation.

The EU is not about trade, it is not about cooperation, it doesn’t sit comfortably with multilateralism and probably never will—it is the product of a bygone age when everything was different and people still stressed about Germany invading its neighbours. All that the EU does is with the intent of affording itself more power and more control. It is here where nuisance turns to malevolence and becomes an affront to democracy.

The global single market is overtaking the EU, and since we are not in the Euro and have no need for political integration, it is time to leave and take our place as a truly global citizen."
__________________
By replying to this post, you hereby grant Phil_MCR a royalty-free license to use, in any way, anything posted by you on the internet. If you do not accept, stop using EF and delete your account.

Last edited by Phil_MCR; 05.07.2016 at 17:14.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #59  
Old 05.07.2016, 16:25
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,481
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,335 Times in 5,680 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Also, I also mentioned my belief that Britain has been harmed, but couldn't fully put into words all the reasoning. This article sets out part of that reasoning more clearly than I could:

http://www.adamsmith.org/the-liberal-case-for-leave/

"While there may have been an element of truth about EEC membership in the 1970s that seduced many subsequent sceptics— the blocs, the global tariffs, the strife and decline in Britain — we can now say that our timing for joining “the club” could not have been worse."

"Events started changing the political and social climate in Britain very soon after we joined."

"Tariffs were then steadily reduced and “globalisation” — the word and the reality — began to take hold."

"The start of this massive global tariff reduction and freeing up of global trade just happened to coincide with the emergence of many new nations."

Locked into the EU, Britain as a naturally outward-looking and trading country was prevented from capitalising on this globalisation and locking in trade flows with these new nations as well as the commonwealth nations.

When I speak to people who are pro-Brexit, it is this renewed case for leave that they are after, not a call to the past that the Remain camp believe.
__________________
By replying to this post, you hereby grant Phil_MCR a royalty-free license to use, in any way, anything posted by you on the internet. If you do not accept, stop using EF and delete your account.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #60  
Old 05.07.2016, 16:55
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 3,039
Groaned at 99 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,774 Times in 1,950 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland the EU and Brexit - No access without free movment

Quote:
View Post
My point is that you can have all the EU regulations that you want, and still there can be manufactures falsifying it. What about the just recent episode of horse meat being sold as beef??? Was the EU regulation useful whatsoever to prevent such case? No.
That's on the same level as someone arguing that all laws should be abolished because they don't prevent crime completely. The absurdity is obvious.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH lewton International affairs/politics 7076 Yesterday 20:55
Switzerland and Brexit Phil_MCR Swiss politics/news 74 12.07.2016 19:24
Hut rental and access without a car arputtick Travel/day trips/free time 6 22.12.2014 20:55
20 years ago Switzerland said no to the EU Sbrinz Swiss politics/news 24 06.12.2012 21:32
non EU married to EU with no prior residence in the EU aureliebg Permits/visas/government 3 22.09.2007 13:22


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0