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Old 10.01.2017, 12:01
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Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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Switzerland wins case obliging Muslim parents to send girls to school-run swimming lessons with boys
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38569428

Previous thread on this topic was locked.
Muslim parents refused childrens' swimming lessons: fined Fr 1'400
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Old 10.01.2017, 12:26
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

Was just reading this on BBC and I wasn't in the country in 2012, so I'm reading this for the first time. Hmmm... I don't know what to think. I'm pretty gobsmacked that any government can dictate to any parents regarding, what is essentially, an extra curricular activity, and to be honest, I'd expect this kind of nonsense more in the UK than Switzerland.

Thinking back to when I was a kid, the house I grew up in had a disused reservoir at the bottom of the garden, so all the kids in my neighbourhood were taken for swimming lessons twice a week as soon as we could walk that far. School swimming lessons didn't start until age 7, and the classes were split into new starters, moderate and good swimmers.

If a 1970's UK infant school can divide swimming tuition based upon ability, why can't a 2017 Swiss school accommodate this, or at least give the Muslim girls a pass on mixed lessons, on the proviso that their parents take them for private swimming lessons and prove this?
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Old 10.01.2017, 12:29
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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If a 1970's UK infant school can divide swimming tuition based upon ability, why can't a 2017 Swiss school accommodate this, or at least give the Muslim girls a pass on mixed lessons, on the proviso that their parents take them for private swimming lessons and prove this?
why?
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Old 10.01.2017, 12:34
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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Was just reading this on BBC and I wasn't in the country in 2012, so I'm reading this for the first time. Hmmm... I don't know what to think. I'm pretty gobsmacked that any government can dictate to any parents regarding, what is essentially, an extra curricular activity, and to be honest, I'd expect this kind of nonsense more in the UK than Switzerland.

Thinking back to when I was a kid, the house I grew up in had a disused reservoir at the bottom of the garden, so all the kids in my neighbourhood were taken for swimming lessons twice a week as soon as we could walk that far. School swimming lessons didn't start until age 7, and the classes were split into new starters, moderate and good swimmers.

If a 1970's UK infant school can divide swimming tuition based upon ability, why can't a 2017 Swiss school accommodate this, or at least give the Muslim girls a pass on mixed lessons, on the proviso that their parents take them for private swimming lessons and prove this?
That's not the issue at hand. What this is is effectively saying is that if you live in Switzerland then you integrate and abide by Swiss culture, and that religion is not an excuse not to.

Oh, and swimming lessons are not an extra curricular school activity here, they're obligatory.
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Old 10.01.2017, 12:35
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

Common sense prevails!
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Old 10.01.2017, 12:45
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

Switzerland shows once again why it leads the world in successful integration of foreigners. Tolerance and integration don't fit together.
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Old 10.01.2017, 12:49
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

Some good news for a change on this topic.
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Old 10.01.2017, 12:50
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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Tolerance and integration don't fit together.
I think they can. But tolerance is different from indulgence.
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Old 10.01.2017, 12:51
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/...d_6473041.html


Strassburg has ruled they have to participate
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Old 10.01.2017, 12:53
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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If a 1970's UK infant school can divide swimming tuition based upon ability, why can't a 2017 Swiss school accommodate this, or at least give the Muslim girls a pass on mixed lessons, on the proviso that their parents take them for private swimming lessons and prove this?
Why? To do that would mean bowing to the fact that strict adherents to the traditional Muslim faith can not be integrated into western society. This seems in my humble opinion to be the root cause of parallel Muslim communities and the no-go areas of European cities.
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Old 10.01.2017, 12:54
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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Switzerland shows once again why it leads the world in successful integration of foreigners. Tolerance and integration don't fit together.
Actually, it's heavy on equality, too. Everyone treated the same.
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Old 10.01.2017, 12:56
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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I think they can. But tolerance is different from indulgence.
This, exactly- you beat me to it.
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Old 10.01.2017, 12:59
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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Switzerland shows once again why it leads the world in successful integration of foreigners. Tolerance and integration don't fit together.
Except this was a European Court ruling...
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Old 10.01.2017, 13:00
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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I think they can. But tolerance is different from indulgence.
The problem is that the two seem inextricably linked where integration is concerned.

By all means believe what you want, but as soon as you expect special treatment or other people to adjust their behaviour on account of your culture or beliefs then it becomes indulgence.
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Old 10.01.2017, 13:01
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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This seems in my humble opinion to be the root cause of parallel Muslim communities and the no-go areas of European cities.
You'll probably find this affects a very small minority of Muslims because the overwhelming majority are secular. Exactly the same as with the Jewish faith, modesty is also an issue for the Orthodox minority.
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Old 10.01.2017, 13:04
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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Except this was a European Court ruling...
The case was brought by the family of the girls involved because Switzerland refused to budge.
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Old 10.01.2017, 13:09
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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The case was brought by the family of the girls involved because Switzerland refused to budge.
And if the European court ruled in the family's favour you'd blame the European court.
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Old 10.01.2017, 13:10
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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You'll probably find this affects a very small minority of Muslims because the overwhelming majority are secular. Exactly the same as with the Jewish faith, modesty is also an issue for the Orthodox minority.
Agreed, thing is it is exactly this minority of Muslims who are causing all the trouble and don´t forget that your generic Westerner doens´t care if "the Muslim" is secular or a tooth-gnashing fanatic, the louder the minority Muslims are is the more marginalised the secular ones will be.
Also methinks that you could be surprised just how many are secular if you asked a Muslim during the Einbürgerung if his allegiance is primarily to the country or to the god.
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Old 10.01.2017, 13:11
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

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And if the European court ruled in the family's favour you'd blame the European court.
Yup.

But they didn't. I find it disconcerting when sovereign issues get ruled upon by foreign courts.
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Old 10.01.2017, 13:17
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Re: Get wet with boys, Muslims!

Article has been updated since I posted it. It only applies to prepubescent girls which seems like a good pragmatic decision.
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