The Südanflug is the southern approach to Zurich's Kloten airport. You can see full maps here:

http://www.vfsn.ch/index.php?option=...egory&catid=39

If you go over to Mannedorf/ Uetikon way you'll see plenty of posters in protest.

I've heard varying reports from 'diabolical' to 'it's nothing' - anyone blighted by noise overt there?

They are the most influential people in ZH and are rather upset to say the least that someone has dared to suggest flying over their houses. Diabolical I say... Whether it makes noise is very open to dispute as normally planes make a lot of noise on take-off and little on landing...

Yep, the residents of "the Gold Coast" make more noise than the planes themselves. I got a tour of Skyguide once, and some of the approach and take-off patterns resemble spaghetti, just to avoid this area. Very influential NIMBYs (Not In My Back Yard) as Richard points out.

But to me, the worst are people are those who move next to an airport, railway, etc because they searched for a bargain, then petition to restrict noise. These clowns really bake my cake.

Fear not. The viability of Zürich as a hub is in question in close proximity to Frankfurt and the Lufthansa factor. If you can wait long enough for the huge investments in the new terminal to go sour then things may change...

dave

There are huge moves afoot with emissions trading; whisper-jet technology; restrictions on night flights. The market for air travel is set to double in the next 20 years and that of freight traffic even more so. I have my doubts about the growth this represents for Zürich airport though. It is simply too expensive.

Even if you subscribe to the hub model proposed by Airbus (and its behemoth A380) as opposed the Boeing Dreamliner point-to-point strategy, it still seems that the market growth for Zürich is limited as a major hub. It is on this strategy that it has based its projections.

Thats a real shame as its now a beautiful airport. Unfortunately the investment was made on flawed expansion plans projected by the main carrier here...

Getting back to the question: the should stop whinging. Aircraft are necessary for a growth economy, and the industry is doing everything feasibly possible to minimise environmental impact.

dave

Are there any statistics, based on volume of traffic, which may give an indicator as to the likelyhood of a plane crashing on approach or take-off? For example, with 'X' thousand flights per year, there's a statistically significant chance of a crash after 'Y' years?

I'd be interested to know the figures and 'potential' for an airport like Zurich, seeing as I''ve noticed an increase in flights in the last year over the city. Don't wish to be macabre, but I feel it's a matter of 'when', not 'if'.

http://www.bfu.admin.ch/en/pdf/Statistik_2005_e.pdf

Heres some stats. Enjoy.

Probability of a catastrophic accident for a military aircraft is typically 1x10**-5 per flying hour and for a civil JAR-25 aircraft must be 1x10**-6 or less.

So if you were to say that the statistics were evenly distributed and independent, and independent of the environment, you could come up with interesting figures concenring the Zürich area. Its easier to look at the attachment

If you are really interested, take a look at the EASA site who are taking over from JAA for airworthiness and flight safety on a European level.

dave

Thank you for inducing more nightmares...roll over Blocher and co. - let's move to the Gold Coast pronto.

Correct me if I am wrong but ZH is too short for an A380 isn't it and they can forget getting permission for an extension... So its all over to Basel then which makes much more sense actually...

Here in Zollikon it is barely noticeable, but I understand that in other areas (Gockhausen) it is much worse.

I agree with Litespeed that people who move to an area with known aircraft noise have no right to complain about it. But let's not forget that the people complaining aren't the ones that moved into the aircraft noise, it moved to them and dropped their property prices through no fault of their own.

I'm not a home owner, so if it became a problem I could simply move without loss, but if I were a home owner I'd be pretty upset about it.

The reasons for the southern approach problem are numerous, but I think it is fair to say that authorities shoulder some of the blame for messing up the negotiations. In any case, I doubt the blame lies with the affected residents.

Here's a nice twist. Paying compensation to those who have suffered financial loss through a reduction in their property value would be way to make the situation right. Normally the airport would be the one responsible for this situation so the home owners sue the airport (the Zurich airport's name is "Unique"). Now the government of canton Zurich very kindly passed legislation limiting the amount of compensation which Unique has to pay out - potentially leaving affected home owners high and dry.

But it gets better - how kind of the government to help Unique escape from its potential legal obligations. Who owns 40% of Unique - the canton Sweet deal for the tax payer, not so sweet deal for the people affected.

Glad I didn't buy in Gockhausen...

I am not sure on this. I know that the only about 2/3 of the longest runway (16?) at ZRH is open, and heavy 744s seem to rotate very close to the piano keys...could be that opening the rest of this might give A380s a chance.

Doubt anyone would be wanting to fly 380s into ZRH or Basel. But then again I am just a wannabee waiting for Flight Sim X to arrive next month...a new PC might be in order. Hope ZRH and Swiss terrain turn out better in this edition.

So, cheap houses going in Gockhausen then?
Think positive!!!

he he he.

And poor me in Kloten (although renting) (says Mark).
We're at the approach end mainly, somewhat quieter, and it's the effin bells that bug us. Still toilet sounding though...

I used to live in Gockhausen. Planes were flying very close to the rooftops on approach to landing. The noise was disturbing enough nevermind the safety...
I moved pretty soon after they opened that approach

I believe that Kloten has handled Concorde during the late 90s for some celebratory event so I would assume it's close to enough for the A380.

Whether the airport can sustain passenger levels for such aircraft is another question; I think yes but they need to be shrewd with how they position themselves (as another LH hub).

From salon.com's Ask the Pilot (May-05), it appears airport modifications for the A380 are for taxiway and apron clearance, and gate space (wings are 50 feet wider than a 747, higher takeoff threshold).

I have a full copy of the airport compatibility report if you like, but its pretty dry reading. I was involved in the development of the escape systems. To get 555++ people off the aeroplane and process them in a timely manner is quite a task, even when you have manoeuvred the aircraft on stand. In the evacuation test (this is public domain) many people in the upper deck ran for the staircase rather than the nearest escape exit. The aircraft is over 7m from the ground....

dave

Well, it seems that the aeroplanes approaching Zurich Airport from the south aren't that normal... why don't you just asked to by invited for an overnight stay, let's say in Gockhausen?

Cf. http://www.zrhwiki.ch/wiki/Flugspuren... regarding the Gold Coast, it has been spared from aeroplane noise so far mainly for topographic reasons.

B.R.

Hilarious, from that Wiki site it lists my town as having objection to the noise. What noise? I just have a great view of the circling aircraft at the northern end of the lake but frankly, I have more noise from cows mooing where I am.

And in the end, who wants to drive to, say, Stuttgart for a flight when going on some trip?

A point to note maybe for me - I flew last Thursday and Friday and I will fly this weekend - before that, I'd last flown in 2004. Wow, I say. Genuinely surprised at such a large gap - at one point I was flying 6 flights or more a month!

You can fly from Friedrichshafen, ryanair to stansted. Which is 1:20 in a car from here. Across the lake though.

dave

excellent; so move all the traffic from Zurich to there and you solve the problem - at least for the Swissies.

I could not actually understand why those in southern Germany were so angry about air traffic to Zurich, assuming that they benefit from using the airport when it suits them