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Old 04.02.2009, 13:53
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The end of Schengen?

What will be the impact to Switzerland if the no vote on the Labour accord wins this Sunday?
I’ve heard that Switzerland will have to withdraw from Schengen, and that all the previous agreements in place with the EU will count for nothing.
Is this correct, and if so then this is a hugely important vote for the country. I know that there has been some discussion on this in the press and that both sides are running advertising campaigns ie the Black Ravens spring to mind but do you think that the Swiss really know what is at stake here? The latest poll seems to say that it is to close to call.

Last edited by Nickj; 04.02.2009 at 14:19. Reason: Spelling Mistake
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Old 04.02.2009, 14:03
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Re: The end of Shengan?

Do you mean Schengen? or EU shenanigans?
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Old 04.02.2009, 14:07
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Re: The end of Shengan?

Point taken, never was much good at foreign names, corrected the typo.
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Old 04.02.2009, 14:14
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Re: The end of Shengan?

Just a joke, but the vote is not. Here is an interesting article on what a no would mean for Swiss airlines

http://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/startsei...rss=true&ty=st

Bottom line: it took a decade to fix the agreements with all EU members to get the flights set up as well as today. In the case of a no all agreements will get cancelled and the negotiation start all over again.
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Old 04.02.2009, 14:18
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Re: The end of Shengan?

I vote "NO " !!!
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Old 04.02.2009, 14:43
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Re: The end of Schengen?

Ok -- now I'm dizzy -- just finally had finished all my Schengen Visa paperwork -- and now this -- ahhhhhh -- not again
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Old 04.02.2009, 14:46
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Re: The end of Schengen?

It would just suck because my gf is about to register her business here and stuff....I hope everything is gonna stay the same!!!
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Old 04.02.2009, 15:07
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Re: The end of Schengen?

The horrendous thing IMO is that so many people just don't know what the vote next weekend could have as consequences if they vote NO. I was talking to a lady last weekend about this. She's "against" having so many Germans in Switzerland, they're taking all the jobs, etc. etc. and why do kids have to learn High German in Kindergarten, it's not a Swiss language and so on ad nauseum.

I tried to convince her that:
1) Switzerland is much better off having qualified and motivated people coming into the country
2) Swiss German does not really exist; High German is one of our national languages and what's wrong with children learning how to speak/read/write it properly at a young age? I think it's shocking, how many Swiss Germans can't speak High German properly
3) There are safeguards in place to avoid having loads of unemployed Bulgarians/Romanians moving in and they probably won't want to come here anyway (how many unemployed Poles/Hungarians/Slovaks do you know of?)

I'm afraid that all the prophets of doom in the SVP and associated groups will win the upper hand and convince those who don't watch the news / don't read newspapers / can't think for themselves that solitary confinement really is best for all of us.
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Old 04.02.2009, 15:17
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Re: The end of Schengen?

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The horrendous thing IMO is that so many people just don't know what the vote next weekend could have as consequences if they vote NO. I was talking to a lady last weekend about this. She's "against" having so many Germans in Switzerland, they're taking all the jobs, etc. etc. and why do kids have to learn High German in Kindergarten, it's not a Swiss language and so on ad nauseum.
But the vote this weekend is supposed to be about two Eastern European countries and has nothing to do with Germans coming here... but on the other hand will affect Swiss businesse heavily if the country will have to renegotiate all bilateral treaties for years...
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Old 04.02.2009, 15:25
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Re: The end of Schengen?

I'm really afraid of that too. But if people vote NO and it gets accepted...how long will it take to renegotiate all bilateral treaties? I'm sure it's gonna take a few months or even years...so people still have a last chance to open their business and stuff, right?
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Old 04.02.2009, 15:30
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Re: The end of Schengen?

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But the vote this weekend is supposed to be about two Eastern European countries and has nothing to do with Germans coming here... but on the other hand will affect Swiss businesse heavily if the country will have to renegotiate all bilateral treaties for years...
Indirectly it has a lot to do with Germans coming here. The EU insists - in my opinion rightly so - that the Swiss can't nitpick on Europeans they like and Europeans they don't like. It's a "take it or leave it" situation. If the Swiss vote no this weekend to (1) continuation of the bilateral treaties and in the same package (2) extension of the bilaterals to BG/RO then the bilaterals will automatically have to be terminated and we can go back to Square 1, i.e. renegoiation of the whole package.
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Old 04.02.2009, 15:35
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Re: The end of Schengen?

A No vote would just be a stupid uninformed decision.

I see that Swiss politicians have been making political broadcasts on the Swiss channels and such, which means they are really worried about it.

Still if a No vote it is, then it is back to the dark ages.
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Old 04.02.2009, 16:09
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Re: The end of Schengen?

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Still if a No vote it is, then it is back to the dark ages.
I completely agree and am only happy that my permits is in place and that I work for a company that has a domestic focus. Doing business in the EU would surely get harder...
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Old 04.02.2009, 16:17
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Re: The end of Schengen?

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A No vote would just be a stupid uninformed decision.

I see that Swiss politicians have been making political broadcasts on the Swiss channels and such, which means they are really worried about it.

Still if a No vote it is, then it is back to the dark ages.
Noting wrong with dark ages
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Old 04.02.2009, 16:26
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Re: The end of Schengen?

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Noting wrong with dark ages
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Old 04.02.2009, 16:30
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Re: The end of Schengen?

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Noting wrong with dark ages
Well, I think there is! I'm kind of afraid. I want my gf to be living with me :-( And she has a business and I just want it to go all good.
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Old 04.02.2009, 16:32
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Re: The end of Schengen?

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Well, I think there is! I'm kind of afraid. I want my gf to be living with me :-( And she has a business and I just want it to go all good.
Just pray that the sane and informed are in the majority on the 8th
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Old 04.02.2009, 19:52
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Re: The end of Schengen?

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The horrendous thing IMO is that so many people just don't know what the vote next weekend could have as consequences if they vote NO....
Probably because it is not really clear what actually the consequences will be.
I have read quite contradicting information, so I feel pretty much confused what to expect.

Allegedly, there is a 'guillotine clause' in the bilateral treaties, saying that in case of a 'no', it will take only 6 months the treaties to expire.

Another source was claiming, that this 'guillotine clause' would not come into place/would be reversed.

Anyway, I am a Swiss in the UK, without any resident permit, just here because the bilateral treaties made this possible, so I am actually pretty nervous about the outcome.
Don't want to be kicked out of the country...
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Old 04.02.2009, 20:05
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Re: The end of Schengen?

If the Swiss vote NO, then the ball is in the EU's court. The EU can accept a democratic verdict. Or the EU may retaliate and cancel the bilateral agreements with Switzerland.

A NO vote would improve the status here of Americans, Canadians, Australians, etc. They will be on par with the EU citizens for permits in Swtzerland. Right now, non-EU citizens are second class.

Meanwhile in the UK, there are strikes against Italian and Portuguese workers! In tough times, xenophobia flourishes.
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Old 04.02.2009, 20:26
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Re: The end of Schengen?

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But the vote this weekend is supposed to be about two Eastern European countries and has nothing to do with Germans coming here... but on the other hand will affect Swiss businesse heavily if the country will have to renegotiate all bilateral treaties for years...
What is clear is that the EU will not accept a situation where some of it's citizens are treated differently and you can expect that the will act on the situation.

Jim
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