http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/front/d...=1151658618000

Here's a very interesting article which appeared on Swissinfo today. Many of you have probably often been told by Swiss that most of the people in Swiss jails are foreigners. Usually the figure they will give you is 90% or 95%, and this is somehow stated to uphold their view that all the woes in their country and the fault of foreigners (but of course they don't mean you, you are a good foreigner after all).

I thought some of you might appreciate this article to help dispell some of this rubbish. A quote from the article:

Maybe they can't get a cheap flat to live in and it's easier to throw a brick through a window?

Careful now.... there might be some truth in that . But seriously, it seemed to say that the crime stats are dominated by break and enter, and that two-thirds of inmates don't have a residence permit.

So am I to conclude from this that crimes committed by those who do have residence permits are actually quite low? Let's consider that 30% of the normal population are foreign.

two-thirds of the inmates (presumably the foreign inmates) don't have a permit, and 70 percent of all the prisoners are now Swiss. So if we calculate that out we get this:

30% Swiss, 47% foreigner without a permit, 23% foreigner with a permit.

Woah! - did anyone just see what I did? If we consider crimes (that carry a jail sentence) commited by the resident population, we see that there are more Swiss. But that's ok - they do outnumber foreigners by just over 2:1, so the bottom line is that a foreigner is more likely to land up in jail than a Swiss, but only be a narrow margin!

But as they say - never let the facts get the in way of a good argument

Regardless, a certain political party that shall remain nameless is sure to capatilize on this report with a selevtive interpretation. (Not that selective interpretations don't happen in other countries...)

I hear the cells are very nice too.

Stu

They are. I saw a documentary recently on the prison in Pfaeffikon, mainly focusing on the solitary confinement wing. But what prisoners get in a normal cell would rank among the most luxurious in the world. I nearly chocked when I saw a prisoner returning to his cell with a box of belongings fastened with a substantial amount of string. In most countries that would be unthinkable due to the suicide risk.

Most western countries have disproportionate prisons populations which are highly questionable. In the USA, its african and latin americans. In Australia, its aborigines. Switzerland has foreigners.

What continues to amaze me here is the lenient sentencing. For example, I know of a guy (Swiss) who was guilty of employee theft, cash to the tune of around 32'000CHF. In Australia, that would almost certainly get you time behind bars. This guy got to give a few grand back and good behaviour.

Same story with sentencing for killing someone on a drink driving offence. There was a case a couple of years back of a Swiss guy that killed someone in Australia while drunk. He came back to Switzerland for the sentencing because he knew he'd get a much more lenient sentence. I think he got 18 months. Needless to say the family of the dead person were not impressed...

Before we go into the luxury of Swiss prison that report (and many others) have pointed out that the prison system is massively overcrowded, with some prisons almost 200% of capacity. Mind you, compared to the third world it must be great. I think I'd still prefer to remain on the outside though

I dont want to come of as rasit or xenophob, however have you noticed the major change in the way we live in switzerland in the last 10 years. I mean i remember when i was small, cars and doors would be left unlocked during the nite (in Geneva), and things were relatively safe at night in the downtown areas.

For the last few years i have been living in canada, and every time i come back home to visit my parents and friends, i realise that I feel safer walking at 3am by my self in montreal than i do in geneva. i dont know i just think that it is a shame that the security risks are increasing, although it is probably idiotic to have assumed that it would be safe forever.

on that note, i understand that crime rates here are much lower than other cities in the world, i am just comparing what was with what is.

Switzerland out of the cities is ok. My cleaner managed to leave my terrace door open for a week whilst I was on holiday....

So that bit in Mike Moore's film where he goes an opens the front doors of Canadian's homes is true!

There are many expats who live under the illusion that no crime happens here. But if you come from London or South Africa then it probably seems that way. Switzerland has low crime rates, but not low enough to make a big deal out of it. My car window was smashed a few weeks ago, so I didn't feel particulaly pleased after that.

That said - I still sleep every night with my front door unlocked, which is probably a bit stupid of me - but at least I'm a light sleeper!

Yep - I got my car stereo nicked a couple of months back (the car was in my parking garage too) so that rather dented my impression of Switzerland as a blissfully crime-free place. Plus, friends have had their cars damaged as a result of attempted theft and a 'friend of a friend' was a victim of a rather nasty mugging/assault at Kalkbreite one night.

That said, overall the place is remarkably safe. Definitely more so than the European average. As you say, the crime rates are low enough that it doesn't become an 'always at the back of your mind' thing like it would be in the UK, for example.


As for the jail figures, regardless of whether or not foreigners are more likely to be banged up it's still quite amazing that they outnumber locals so much. That sort of statistic would have the citizens of most EU contries up in arms demanding tough action against immigrants, so the Swiss are showing remarkable tolerance.


Gav

Gav, while I agree with your comments on crime since I too have recently become a victim of crime I think that last statement is going a bit far. Swiss showing remarkable tolerance? Have you ever watched the political debates which include the SVP on telezüri - or read the racist and xenophobic rants that the drop into your letterbox?

Now how would calls for action against immigrants help the situation? If you read the article (and my additional comments) you'd see that the jails are mostly full of people who AREN'T immigrants - notice the bit about not having a residence permit - that's not an immigrant, that's a tourist.

Unfortunately Switzerland is a rich country in easy reach of poor countries. The poor have been robbing the rich since the beginning of time, and will continue to do so. Notice the part in the article about how break and enters dominate the crime statistics? Is this being done by immigrants? No.

Crime is not a matter of skin colour or nationality, it's usually a matter of financial situation and education. People from poorer socio-economic backgrounds generally have higher rates of crime - whether they are Swiss or not! It just so happens that immigrants in this country (and many others) tend to have their demographics skewed into the poorer end of the scale, and are therefore overrepresented by both poverty and crime. It's the same any country - the jails aren't full of doctors and lawyers.

Are you aware of the latest round of legislation that is about to put to the vote? If passed it would give Switzerland the most draconian laws in europe concerning asylum seekers and foreigners. Sorry - remarkable tolerance? I don't think so....

Well firstly, I never said that calls for crackdowns on immigration (legal and illegal) would do anything to help the prison situation. But it surely *would* happen in just about any European country where there was a massively disproportionate amount of foreigners making up the jail population, legal immigrants or not. Look at all the fuss in the UK at the moment over foreign prisoners, or the racist attacks in Northern Ireland.


Secondly, the actual amount of violence targetted against foreigners is very low. People clearly don't have much regard for political correctness here but they have showed more *actual* tolerance for a large immigrant population than many supposedly tolerant and 'multicultural' societies in the EU.


Gav

Exactly. In that case I think we fully agree on that point...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIph6XlXha4
sorry if this is in bad taste- not for the sensitive. The Swiss repatriate offenders, so they wont be in the prisons. They have even built a Swiss prison in Colombia to get rid of the cocaine dealers- clever huh?

Sorry my bad they didn't build the prison, they helped build better prisons. T

Check the link. The one you've posted isn't bad taste, it's just poor quality comedy.

Wait - looking back at this report - 2/3rds is 67%, then 30% swiss makes 3% of inmates are foreign with permits - seems like a pretty good average to me! Ill watch out for those locals down langstrasse on my way to the bar this evening!

Yep - crime free it is not. We came here from South Africa to be "safe". Guess what? 4 months ago our car was completely burnt out - what a wasted crime. Of course they never found the arsonist/s. This certainly did not happen back home - Anyway, there they would rather steal your car! But they might kill you if you happen to be in it at the time So, I still feel safer here.

Jennifer you never fail to amaze me, why on earth have you told the story about your car being burnt out 4 months ago, on an old thread about foreigner's in Swiss prisons?

Is this a subliminal message?

That's horrible! I'm so sorry to hear this happened. Was this in Lausanne? Maybe it's because I don't watch much TV here, but the media coverage of crimes is less than I'm used to so I get the impression that it's safer here.