If Switzerland stopped exporting cars, what effect would that have on the economy?

You're kidding right?

Very funny.

Another issue with such a direct democracy as practiced here in Switzerland (and I am talking about the general way things are done, not just government) is the amount of time it takes to get things done.

My husband worked on an architectural project in Schaffhausen years ago and everything from the design of the reception desk to the colour of the paint on the walls was voted on by all the staff who worked in the building. Now this is a lovely sentiment (the cleaner must have felt great about his input into the magnolia walls) but it took far longer to get the project finished than it would have in a different country.

I am sure this is part of why things end up being so expensive here.

Another good point Mel. Where democracy is over-applied and it leads to inefficiency. Thinking about it, one can take the concept of democracy to the -nth degree, at which point it becomes a farce.

No, please go ahead and explain why cocain production is bad and bazooka production is okay when it come to free enterprise vs restrictions agreed up by society. Then explain why this is 'asymmetric'.

It will make the discussion clearer. Thanks.

I would really like to think you are right but unfortunately I don't think this is true. We only have to look at the 2004 re-election of George W. Bush in the US to see that sometimes democracy can get it very, very wrong.

Thanks Mel for providing concrete examples and points. The OP has yet to.

This sort of argument will go nowhere. Although I agree with you, the majority that voted for Bush would say they got it right and we are wrong. We might as well start arguing religion.

What people forget is that Democracy was conceived as a way for WORTHY individuals to have a say in the running of the country. In ancient Greece, only certain people were allowed to participate in democracy.

Modern democracy means that any retard can vote as long as he is of a certain age.

Oooh, goodie!

It's been a long time since someone spoke to me like I was an idiot child! Today must be my lucky day!


Meanwhile, take a look at things beyond your pocket book and sense of personal freedom to actually SEE the world as a global community.

Maybe that will abolish your obtuse blinders.

Yes, true and I hesitated to go there for fear of throwing in another red herring (although GWBs approval rating was less than 35% when he left so lmany people realised they'd got it wrong).

But I truly do not think the majority of the world would vote against bringing back the death penalty if given the chance. Do you?

You only had to look at the debate about it on this very forum to see that people you thought were reasonable individuals were all for torturing then killing certain criminals.

That is the exact point, cuz the 'educated elite' only looked for themselves. They became corrupt beyond belief. Hence, democracy for all.

The solution is to provide everyone with a good education worthy to make sensible decision in running their own life and in voting. It should also encourage them to question and be sceptical. Some countries do achieve this. The US is not one of them.

This was also the take in places such as the Soviet Union. Policy was effectively set by the Party and only worthy individuals were admitted into the Party. This way idiots, extremists and madmen were excluded from the political system. I don't know how many people would agree that the Soviet Union was a model democracy though.

Off-topic, but a nice article for you:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...y-execution-us

Ok. The use of cocaine in any form is negative for the user. No matter how it is used, it is negative. This is why it is banned.

The use of a turbine-trainer can be used to train pilots. Full stop. The direct usage is not directly (or even inderectly) negative.

CAN. YOU. SEE. IT. IS. NOT. THE. SAME?? Hence not symmetrical.

I have never used the example of a "bazooka". Pilatus do not make such things.

If you look past his attention grabbing, crass style, CD actually has a valid point. There are people out there who do not inform themselves or take any interest in the political process but still can go and vote. And this breeds a certain type of candidate who will play to the lowest common denominator in an attempt to win the votes of these people.

My reply is about general democracy in Switzerland:

In 1987, the Swiss voters were asked to vote on the initiative of making a protected area out of the Rothenthurm moor. However, everyone knew the real issue behind the vote: to stop the army from building a shooting ground (Waffenplatz).

Before the vote, I was involved in the campaign and handed out leaflets at the Lucerne train station. Most people said they are against turning the beautiful moor into an army shooting ground but the government will do what they want and the people basically have no say.

Guess what? The Swiss nation voted yes to the nature reserve and no to the army. The government was flabbergasted and that was the turnaround of the political power of the Swiss army. It was an inspiring proof of what democracy can do.

The Swiss voters voted with their heads and hearts and the political power of the army decreased in one swoop. Truly fascinating.

A lot of people have a very good time on cocaine. Some people cant handle it. Ditto logic applies to your turbine trainer. Could be used to train pilot in commerical or or in military. Society can decide to ban if it feels the negatives of the latter in either case outweighs the postives from the former.

I never mentioned Pilatus. The referendum is not only for Pilatus. I thought we were arguing in general, not just your very limited example that you told us not to consider.

So I don't see your point.

I'd rather be governed by "elite" then by mouth breathing idiots who think that Rapture is coming and can't count to 10 without a calculator.