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  #21  
Old 09.02.2010, 08:29
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

I think this article has mostly exaggerated events. I did not like reading also it gave me the feeling of a hidden agenda...and I am no conspiracy theorist
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  #22  
Old 09.02.2010, 08:41
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

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It's funny how everybody jumps up to defend Switzerland, where in actuality one cannot deny the fact that the article does hold truth to it.
Oh, I am not defending Switzerland, per say. I am an American and I have the ideal that people define themselves. We may not like it but there you go. Now if my government would just stop trying to run other countries...

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The writer of this article - "Today, however, Switzerland's cities are grubby..." what! The guy needs to walk the streets of Zurich, get on a flight from Zurich to any London airport, and walk the streets of London. It always strikes me how worn-out and dirty the streets of London look in comparison.
I don't think that is valid comparison. London is ancient and although Zurich is no spring chicken there is a difference between the way they have been "lived in" over the centuries.

But to me any comparison is invidious. Where else in the world do you get small cities that are quite tidy and clean. (excepting cigarette butts, of course ) I mean seriously, what is the guy saying? Don't forget that grubby has many implications. He could mean that Zurich is loosing its polish and doesn't look as refined as it once did. I wouldn't know. I thought that it seemed fairly nice when I was there last spring.

<Edit>
OK, I finally read the article.
While most of it true after a stilted fashion. It is irrelevant. Switzerland survived before the banking secrecy laws and will probably continue to survive after them. The author seems to writing in a style of, Switzerland is too Swiss, oops, now it isn't Swiss enough. Oh, now it is too Swiss again... Etc, ad nauseum."

What the author needs to realise is that whilst his musings may have factual basis, they are irrelevant to the people of Switzerland. I am sure that the Swiss would be the first to point out that his living here for a while doesn't and won't ever make him Swiss.

Last time I checked Switzerland doesn't need some two bit Hack to validate it's existence. Nor does it matter what the EU thinks as Switzerland is a sovereign country and will continue to wield that sovereignty with jealous authority. Truly, this is the one thing on which I wholeheartedly agree with the Swiss.

Brian.
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Last edited by the_clangers; 09.02.2010 at 08:59. Reason: avoid double post
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  #23  
Old 09.02.2010, 09:01
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

Well I agree that Swiss cities generally look a bit grubby, but that's a direct result from the politics and situation in the 90's. All Swiss cities are actually getting better, new, nicer buildings are being constructed and generally the cities and towns are being made more livable. There are still many ugly quarters in all Swiss cities, but even the uglier parts of Zürich are gradually improving a bit. The rest of the article is a load of crap, except that our politicians look very provincial which of course they do. Switzerland is no superpower and doesn't pretend to be, so what's that crap of CH not being important on the world stage? We're just 8 million people on this planet, why should we care ? Still the host of a great many international organisations, summits, peace talks etc... I think that's quite ok. Switzerland had a unique position after WWII, it's clear that this wouldn't last forever, for the rest... it's just a lot of contradictory nonsense.
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  #24  
Old 09.02.2010, 09:21
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

IMHO it is more bollocks than not. I assume that it's written by American journalist who feels disenchanted with current economic crisis and tries to poke other, still smoothly running, countries (there are not so many anymore though). Reading this fable and not being naive that there is ideal nation, but CH did pretty well IMO through lots of "stormy weathers". The times have changed so old Switzerland obviously won't be the same and it has to adapt to new realities of modern world order. I think they are still doing pretty well under pressure and given the size and the location. I am not beng protagonist of CH but things here ain't seem to be so doom.


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Now the old ways are no longer working. Switzerland today is just a small, self-involved European country, not fully in or fully outside the EU, with little influence anywhere. The rest of the world may still make its annual pilgrimage to Davos. But the participants at the global meeting seem to have little interest in or awareness of the nation in which they are meeting. Switzerland may have always been about more than cuckoo clocks and skiing. But just what those other attributes are is becoming harder and harder to see.
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  #25  
Old 09.02.2010, 09:39
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

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All Swiss cities are actually getting better, new, nicer buildings are being constructed and generally the cities and towns are being made more livable. There are still many ugly quarters in all Swiss cities, but even the uglier parts of Zürich are gradually improving a bit....
OMG, watch out what you wish for. I regularly visit Warsaw once a year and I am bedazzled by humongous skyscrapers which spoil the views. I liked olden architecture, partly similar to Swiss buildings, ornaments and classical touch. Soon we are going to live in a "modern Japanese city".

Just for a sake of example:

This vs that .
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  #26  
Old 09.02.2010, 09:43
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

At least the country doesn't go stagnant. That would be really bad.


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Have you read it? what do you think about it? it's in Newsweek after all, and it's pretty heavy...

http://www.newsweek.com/id/233207

i just might add i don't agree with it, even though most of the things he says there is pretty much true, but why would Switzerland be over?

so facts are given (presented in a biased way though), just the conclusion is strange.
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  #27  
Old 09.02.2010, 09:55
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

He reads like a guy whose residence permit wasn't renewed.
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  #28  
Old 09.02.2010, 11:18
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

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I assume that it's written by American journalist who feels disenchanted with current economic crisis and tries to poke other, still smoothly running, countries (there are not so many anymore though).
Er, no, it is written by a pro-EU British politician.
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  #29  
Old 09.02.2010, 11:27
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

One could say the same about the US as well....

I`m Just Sayin.....
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  #30  
Old 09.02.2010, 11:29
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

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Er, no, it is written by a pro-EU British politician.
Are you sure it is not an undercover journalist using alternative spelling?

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Still another myth, much touted at home and by Euro-skeptics elsewhere, has been Switzerland's purported freedom from EU shackles. The country's refusal to join the Union supposedly allowed it to maintain its sovereignty and remain distinct from its neighbors who had to bow to Brussels.
However a bit of search reveals interesting biography.
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  #31  
Old 09.02.2010, 11:37
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

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However a bit of search reveals interesting biography.
But no mention of his time in Switzerland?
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  #32  
Old 09.02.2010, 11:39
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

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One could say the same about the US as well....

I`m Just Sayin.....
One can and does say many things about the US as well.

What were you trying to say?

Brian.
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  #33  
Old 09.02.2010, 11:54
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

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One can and does say many things about the US as well.

What were you trying to say?

Brian.
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  #34  
Old 09.02.2010, 11:56
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

Just one detail, not very important but showing that the writer's knowledge is not exactly up to date: McShane writes that the Swiss (whoever that was) "was also responsible for getting the Nazis to stamp the notorious J (for Jude, or Jew) on the front of German passports [...]."

That myth, pampered by many media world-wide to this day, was based on an article in the Beobachter in 1954. The Beobachter had to apologize for that nonsense in 1998 (see here), but the myth is hard to kill and still pretty handy.
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  #35  
Old 09.02.2010, 12:33
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

Just two remarks :

Switzerland important in world affairs ? I must have missed something !

And that the streets of Zurich became messy and dirty and miserable according to our teachers in the 1960ies was OUR fault, the fault of the careless postwar generation !
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  #36  
Old 09.02.2010, 12:53
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

Wow...

Lord above, where did the author get his info from?

As someone above wrote, it looks like he's never spent much/any time here and is trying to drum up anti-CH sentiment.

This para in particular made me question the validity of the piece:

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Today, however, Switzerland's cities are grubby, its trains run late, its highways are always under repair, and its politicians often seem provincial. This former haven has turned ugly, as xenophobic populists have campaigned to close doors to outsiders (except the super-rich). More and more, Switzerland seems like just another small, struggling European nation.
Cities are a damned site cleaner and safer than European and US cities I have been to (and I travel a lot). Sure there's a lot of graffiti IMO, but that's it.

Trains run late - I mean what?!? Sure you get some delays but they still have excellent timetables and it remains the exception rather than the norm.

Highways always under repair - um, I think they are always being improved - no? With the exception of that A1/A2 stretch between Basel/Zurich/Luzern/Bern - they are fine.

Politicians often seem provincial - it is a small country focused on itself, what do you expect?

Xenophobic populists have campaigned to close doors to outsiders (except the super-rich) - ermmm... WTF?

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  #37  
Old 09.02.2010, 13:19
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

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Considering how Obama lost and all...
Considering what Obama has accomplished so far... remember "Change"?
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  #38  
Old 09.02.2010, 17:10
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

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And who would make our absolutely delicious Swiss Cheese ?


The Yugoslavs and the turks, as they do now !!
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  #39  
Old 09.02.2010, 17:23
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

...once again, the anti-anti-Swiss delegation seems to be a tad bit enraged at the article. Why does everybody get so wound up whenever Switzerland gets criticized?
The cities are grubby..the trains do run late...and the politicians seem like a bunch of mountain goat herders....I don't want this to be Backwards Switzerland, but come on, ya'll should take off the pink shades once in a while and recognize reality.
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  #40  
Old 09.02.2010, 17:33
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Re: The End of Switzerland?

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With quotes like that you have to wonder if the reporter who wrote that article has actually ever stepped foot in this country..
Totally agree!

and it gets worse:

"Switzerland's cities are grubby"
- total bull as SMA pointed out, although there are bizzare ammounts of graffitti in swiss towns. Not exactly dirt in my book though

"its trains run late"
- occasionally ive seen the ole SBB running late. like 3 minutes late FFS. Maybe this dude tried to get the Cisalpino, which would probably cause upset to Swiss rail if it ever ran on time!

"its highways are always under repair"
- true, most roads seem to be under repair. I would be more worried about no repairs

"and its politicians often seem provincial"
- was there a time when swiss politics wasnt??
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