When were you last here for a longer stay ? Why the question ? Because the graffity has clearly receded over here in the past few years. If you are interested in the matter, go on a Saturday late afternoon early evening from "Ziegel au Lac" to the "Freizeitanlage" and you will, halfway see some of those artists, quite legally at work. True, they are not yet equalling Michelangelo or Van Gogh, but the quality of their "oeuvres" is quite interesting

I used UK public transport for three months in autumn 1972 and then again and again on visits there for decades. It is miles better than the "natives" of that island often tell you !

Yep, but you can thank the previous president for that. Shrub messed up the economies of the world more than any person in recent memory. But that is what happens whey you bugger up the world's oil supplies for the benefit of a few cronies and friends.
Oop, forgot about the ego and self agrandisement.

Brian.

It's really very variable depending on where you are and when it is, not to mention the weather. Sometimes excellent, sometimes appalling.

i agree. UK public transport is excellent. the main problem areas are the southern lines commuter lines going to london which had some pretty poor operators and lacked investment.

Well, one can say this aswell about any other "art". Some people define grafiti as art, thats why you see them more or less untouched. Actually, Basel is quite famous in the scene (well thats was some years ago) for their strip below the highway/next to the train rails.

I completly agree with you about the tags (which is caused not by those people,but some 12/13 wannabees).

Sure but you have to agree that if you find your car spray painted no matter what you will not find it very artistic. I feel the same about public property.
I have no problem when it is a designated spot.

In November. I agree, it is "slightly" better. Hopefully it is a trend.

Thanks for debunking this. I naively thought also that the story was true. I read it in virtually every article or book on Switzerland.
Jean Ziegler must be disappointed.

Doubt you've ever been there.

I have. Was very into graffiti and hiphop in the mid to late 80s. Not been recently though. Also, just in case I was being misinterpreted, I use gang in the "old fashioned" sense, where it was a way of people in the same neighbourhood to identify each other rather than what now seems to be the media meaning where they just shoot and stab each other

I can imagine that it is general perception that things do not work in our respective countries very smoothly, complex of "green grass on the other side". In fact, if you compare places with the most reliable public transport the European cities would come first and I can only envy large cities like Landon, Zurich to enjoy such priviledges. You will always find some folks who would complain because once or twice the train did not make it on time...

There are countries in the world that you do not have luxury of using such because it is simply either dangerous to do so or not reliable enough to get you anywhere within certain time. You have to use your vehicle, calculate cost of petrol and time spent exercising your leg on clutch or acceleration pedal in traffic jams which is not so much fun. Some people might think that driving car is actually a luxury, but there are also some who would kindly disagree.

True. Having the car and being able to use it is a luxury.
Having to use the car for everything no matter what, is NOT. It is a chore.

Brian.

You have local differences everywhere. If you use public transport in Glattbrugg it is splendid, but the bus system in Kloten (6 buses departing from the airport within 7 minutes, but then none until half an hour later, Kloten SBB rail-station only having ONE S-Bahn, while Glattbrugg/Opfikon has 2 and Bassersdorf 3) is a definite desaster.

Or go to the Solothurner prairies and try to reach Oberbipp. The public transport system in that area must have been devised in the times of Ivan the Terrible !

So that, while public transport in Switzerland generally excels, also here are weak spots.

I some 3 or 4 years ago spoke with a relatively young Brit here in Zurich who started to lecture on how excellent this and that had been in London W2 in the 1970ies, until I stopped him and politely asked him where HE had been in the 70ies. And when he had to admit as having been born in the 80ies to have been absent then, I told him that I had been in W2 in 72 for three months, and nicely could tell him some "reality check"

On this I'd like to say that every time I've been in the German-speaking part of the country I've only managed to speak French with people that looked at least 40 years old.

When I need to ask something I always start a conversation with "excusez-moi, parlez-vous francais?", and while most elder people reply yes, not even a single person of around my age has ever done so. Then I switch to English and they can usually make a proper conversation.

So I tend to agree with the part of the article that you quote.

And why is the article wrong nevertheless ? Because what you state already was stated by people back in 1975. And those who then were 30 years old, now are, due to natural aging, 65 years old ! The reason for this is not that the young do not learn French in school, but A) that the French they learn in school is only of theoretical value and B) that French in most of German speaking Switzerland is exceedingly unpopular among the young. Why the change over the years ? People relax, people on holidays or professional stays abroad find their French suddenly useful, people on excursions to the Romandie find out their French to be miles better than the German of the Romands, etc. I am btw. quite certain that many of those "youngish" Swiss German-speakers you met, when on visit to Geneva suddenly DO speak French, sure not the language of Voltaire, but "Bundes-Franz" but French nevertheless

Quite agree there Wollishofener, I only started to speak French after high school, when I was required to at work, University, holidays. English is just much more popular among the young, there are very few tensions between the French and German parts of Switzerland currently, and unlike the past, political votes are getting increasingly similar despite there still being differences. It's a very unsubstantiated article with little real information.

Well, the results of political votes in the Romandie are similar to the results in the larger cities in German speaking Switzerland. To me, English and French are like the two wheels of a bicycle ! If one gets lost, the bike is done

I almost forgot my French after the school years, but then on travels in the Maghreb, in view of my miserable Arabic, I used French as communication tool, and when being in France thereafter I never regarded my Maghrebi accent as a problem, not least as it corresponded with my "appearance" anyway, but quite to the contrary improved it over the years. I however, on the second-last meeting with one of my (4) secondary school teachers (a Sorbonne academic, the most intelligent men I ever met, but absolutely down to earth and modest) I told him that half might be twice the value. And explained that I thought that reducing the teaching of French in schools might help French in popularity. French in fact already gained a lot since it (in Zurich) was put onto equal position in school. As now, the young can easily see that French, after having overcome some basics, is rather the easier language, while English, after some easy beginnings, becomes intricate and complicated (even if interesting for the linguistically interested).

I two years ago, met class-mates of that secondary school class, and a "girl" (now matured teacheress) said, when I praised Dr M for his tolerance, said "well, you of course were his favourite, as being best in history, and with your French". And I said, but in French I was lacking in grammar and in vocabulary. She retorted "but you see you were the only one whose French when reading SOUNDED French ¨!" And I for decades always thought that Mr Me... just wanted me not to fall asleep !!!

the ******* who wrote this is a LABOUR MP. Yeah, LABOUR.... as in COMMIE. Where did George Orwell get his information from? The FABIAN society, which is the same "think" or should I say "commie" tank that supports the LABOUR (COMMIE) party of UK that has destroyed the pound worse than the dollar.

What a ****ing joke. All these damn elitists who do nothing that follow the orders of their masters. Labour is the biggest joke in the entire world. What's a Lilberal? It's someone who thinks you can make the world a better place by living off the LABOUR others. Until they leave the country for, oh let's say... Switzerland!

Sadly, you are worse at arguing you point of view than even MacShane...

Wow, what a poorly-researched and histrionic article. I actually felt embarassed for MacShane by the end. If it was a Uni essay, it would get a failing grade.

You get stupid statements like this:

"The fabled Swiss passport now counts for little."

What does this even mean? How has it lost value in any quantifiable way?

Apparently he has, from this line on his CV:

"1980: Policy director, International Metalworkers Federation in Geneva"

Might be a point of view from old times, though. Somebody pointed out that MacShane seems to have a negative point of view towards switzerland. I wonder what some of us the EFers, especially those with really bad experiences from this country, would write down (or perhaps not) about this country in 20 years time if reaching an impact position such as this Denis MacShane.