| Swiss politics/news What's going on in Switzerland? |  | | 
09.02.2010, 00:47
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 290
Groaned at 27 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 80 Times in 36 Posts
| | | The End of Switzerland?
Have you read it? what do you think about it? it's in Newsweek after all, and it's pretty heavy... http://www.newsweek.com/id/233207
i just might add i don't agree with it, even though most of the things he says there is pretty much true, but why would Switzerland be over?
so facts are given (presented in a biased way though), just the conclusion is strange.
Last edited by juice99; 09.02.2010 at 01:08.
| 
09.02.2010, 00:55
|  | mix well with a pinch of moderation | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Säuliamt
Posts: 2,841
Groaned at 21 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 1,683 Times in 935 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland? | Quote: | |  | | | Have you read it? what do you think about it? | | | | | | Quote: | |  | | | Today the Swiss French hardly bother learning German, and Swiss Germans have stopped learning French. | | | | | With quotes like that you have to wonder if the reporter who wrote that article has actually ever stepped foot in this country..
| | This following 6 users would like to thank vwild1 for this useful post: | | 
09.02.2010, 00:57
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ZRH
Posts: 3,381
Groaned at 111 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 1,839 Times in 1,100 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | |
I have to tell you that I have seen the end of Switzerland a number of times. It was like a dream.... there was the Lake of Geneva... and then the Rhine Falls.... and then there was Basel, and finally, there was the checkpoint at Chiasso. All very surreal.
Jokes aside, a lot of Swiss I know feel that the Switzerland they grew up in no longer exists.
| 
09.02.2010, 01:01
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 290
Groaned at 27 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 80 Times in 36 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland? | Quote: | |  | | | With quotes like that you have to wonder if the reporter who wrote that article has actually ever stepped foot in this country.. | | | | | i don't know, but | Quote: |  | | | MacShane is a Labour M.P. and a former U.K. minister for Europe. Before entering politics, he lived and worked in Switzerland. | | | | | and also, few days ago, worker of the emergency room in Universitatsspital thought i'm french after he saw my insurance company on my health card from french part even though i was speaking english. just a very small thing of course, but i think this is true, LESS people in the french part are now learning german, than let's say 10 years ago. i read few articles about that on swissinfo.
| 
09.02.2010, 01:02
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,078
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 665 Times in 349 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland? | Quote: |  | | | A little more than a year ago, Switzerland joined the EU's Schengen zone (which allows internal travel without passports), something not even Britain can boast of. As a result, some 3,000 Germans now arrive monthly to work and live in the country | | | | | That's a mistake isn't it?
Schengen is to do with passports and freedom of travel . . . it's nothing to do with freedom to work.
| 
09.02.2010, 01:09
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,078
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 665 Times in 349 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland?
It's an opinion piece by Denis McShane which probably means it has a pro-EU motivation.
| 
09.02.2010, 01:13
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 290
Groaned at 27 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 80 Times in 36 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland? | Quote: | |  | | | That's a mistake isn't it?
Schengen is to do with passports and freedom of travel . . . it's nothing to do with freedom to work. | | | | | i guess his idea was that since it's easier to travel to and from switzerland, more people want to move and work there.
this is not true of course,
lack of comfort caused by regular ID checks is not big factor in people's so important decision as to where they want to live ! and i think statistics are confirming that. (so from 2009 , actually less Germans moved in compared to 2008, because of the economic crissis, Schengen didn't help at all)
| 
09.02.2010, 01:20
|  | mix well with a pinch of moderation | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Säuliamt
Posts: 2,841
Groaned at 21 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 1,683 Times in 935 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland? | Quote: |  | | | A little more than a year ago, Switzerland joined the EU's Schengen zone (which allows internal travel without passports), something not even Britain can boast of. As a result, some 3,000 Germans now arrive monthly to work and live in the country | | | | | | Quote: | |  | | | That's a mistake isn't it? | | | | | Yes, the writer of that article (Denis MacShane) has actually tripled the true figure of 1,000 per month.
source: http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/bildstrecke.html?id=26908 | 
09.02.2010, 01:32
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,078
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 665 Times in 349 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | He makes his article self-contradictory anyway . . . it's a country in such decline that people are flocking here to work. Switzerland certainly stacks up rather favourably against the UK and the more errant Eurozone countries.
| 
09.02.2010, 01:41
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Vaud
Posts: 820
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 397 Times in 257 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland? | Quote: | |  | | | i just might add i don't agree with it, even though most of the things he says there is pretty much true, but why would Switzerland be over? | | | | | People have been saying that Switzerland is over for centuries.
The Swiss just don't seem to be listening.
Which is fine. They should decide their own fate. What others think doesn't matter.
Switzerland will continue unabated. Or maybe it won't. But it will be on it's own timetable.
Brian.
| | This user would like to thank the_clangers for this useful post: | | 
09.02.2010, 05:42
| | Junior Member | | Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Australia
Posts: 81
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 40 Times in 23 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland?
Meh, it's Newsweek. Last U.S. election they were unabashedly biased for the Obama camp - so for me they've lost all semblance of journalistic integrity.
| 
09.02.2010, 05:52
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: California
Posts: 914
Groaned at 19 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 709 Times in 364 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland?
It reads more like a high school essay than a very researched journalistic piece.
I am curious about the author's motivation and the timing of this article. Was he a guest at the WEF? He clearly has a problem with Switzerland: http://www.epolitix.com/mpwebsites/m...enis-macshane/ http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...orporate-money
I do agree with his assessment of the Swiss political scene. Calmy-Rey's and Merz's gaffes last week made me cringe.
| | This following 5 users would like to thank ch-expat for this useful post: | | 
09.02.2010, 06:27
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Zurich
Posts: 490
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 237 Times in 76 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland?
"
Meh, it's Newsweek. Last U.S. election they were unabashedly biased for the Obama camp - so for me they've lost all semblance of journalistic integrity. "
Considering how Obama lost and all...
| 
09.02.2010, 06:35
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: near the French Border
Posts: 989
Groaned at 9 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 276 Times in 165 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland?
Switzerland will never end. Only if we split the country in four parts
And who would make our absolutely delicious Swiss Cheese ? | | This user would like to thank Bertrand - Geneva for this useful post: | | 
09.02.2010, 06:50
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,535
Groaned at 14 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,986 Times in 976 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland? | Quote: | |  | | | It reads more like a high school essay than a very researched journalistic piece.
I do agree with his assessment of the Swiss political scene. Calmy-Rey's and Merz's gaffes last week made me cringe. | | | | | I agree. It's a very unobjective assessment full of his own political agendas and not everybody would agree with his views. But he does raise a good point about Switzerland's political leaders, especially their performance on the international stage. They do lack polish and they can come over provincial. On the other hand, Macshane might want to reflect on his own political system before he criticises that of others. At a time when there is a furious outpouring of public anger against the House of Commons for the way they've abused their expenses, the public's trust in politicians in Macshane's own country is at an all time low.
| | This following 5 users would like to thank Nev for this useful post: | | 
09.02.2010, 07:09
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Olten
Posts: 1,101
Groaned at 63 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 449 Times in 243 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland?
It's funny how everybody jumps up to defend Switzerland, where in actuality one cannot deny the fact that the article does hold truth to it.
| | This user would like to thank lost_inbroad for this useful post: | | 
09.02.2010, 07:19
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: California
Posts: 914
Groaned at 19 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 709 Times in 364 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland? | Quote: | |  | | | I agree. It's a very unobjective assessment full of his own political agendas and not everybody would agree with his views. But he does raise a good point about Switzerland's political leaders, especially their performance on the international stage. They do lack polish and they can come over provincial. On the other hand, Macshane might want to reflect on his own political system before he criticises that of others. At a time when there is a furious outpouring of public anger against the House of Commons for the way they've abused their expenses, the public's trust in politicians in Macshane's own country is at an all time low. | | | | | I agree. it is a shame. We had brilliant politicians in the past. MacShane mentions the Gorbatchev/Reagan meeting. It was made possible by Kurt Furgler that was in the FC at the time. The man spoke 1/2 a dozen languages completely fluently and was a master negotiator. He solved the hostage crisis in 1982 at the Polish embassy. He is the one that also made possible the creation of Canton Jura. He became vice-president of the "club of Rome" think tank when he retired from the FC.
| 
09.02.2010, 07:38
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: ZH
Posts: 3,480
Groaned at 32 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 2,923 Times in 1,474 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland? | Quote: | |  | | | It reads more like a high school essay than a very researched journalistic piece.
I am curious about the author's motivation and the timing of this article. Was he a guest at the WEF? He clearly has a problem with Switzerland: | | | | | Could be the SVP infiltrating international journalism to send out a story that Switzerland is going to sh*t to stem the steady flow of expats hoarding into the country...
" Move along, there's nothing to see, it's all crap here..."
| | This user would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post: | | 
09.02.2010, 07:41
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 313
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 156 Times in 94 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland?
The writer of this article - "Today, however, Switzerland's cities are grubby..." what! The guy needs to walk the streets of Zurich, get on a flight from Zurich to any London airport, and walk the streets of London. It always strikes me how worn-out and dirty the streets of London look in comparison.
"More and more, Switzerland seems like just another small, struggling European nation." - eh? In his dreams. I am so tired of the constant superior attitude of European Unionists. The biggest threat to Switzerland would be to be sucked into the bureaucratic abyss that is Brussels.
"As Europe ponders its role in the new geopolitical order, Switzerland is looking less and less important to world affairs." The difference here is that I am unaware of Switzerland pretending to be important in world affairs unlike 'Europe' which for some reason the writer fails to recognise Switzerland as lying within. 'Europe' in the EU sense has a vastly bloated sense of its own significance failing to realise that China, India... are where true future (and current?) power lies.
__________________
Please click here to see the English Forum thread for our FREE monthly newsletter emailed to English speakers in Switzerland containing articles on life in Switzerland & What's On events guide | | This following 3 users would like to thank Swissmountainair for this useful post: | | 
09.02.2010, 08:28
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Züri Oberland
Posts: 3,253
Groaned at 156 Times in 100 Posts
Thanked 1,961 Times in 853 Posts
| | | Re: The End of Switzerland? | Quote: |  | | | Switzerland posted 3 percent annual growth over the five years prior to the banking crisis—higher than the rest of Europe. The country suffers from neither the public nor the private indebtedness of the Anglo-Saxon world and hasn't faced the collapse of a housing bubble, as Spain and Ireland have. Swiss unemployment may have risen, but it still stands at only 4.4 percent, less than half the EU average. The country boasts more green industry and technology actually in operation than any other nation in the world. Rule of law, a vigorous press, and a corruption-free state continue to make it attractive. | | | | | | Quote: |  | | | Now the old ways are no longer working. | | | | | Somewhat of a contradiction, don't you think Mr MacShane??
Anyone who starts a tirade against Switzerland by quoting the most quoted mis-quote about Switzerland, proves their credentials are tarnished. How long before the world realises that cuckcoo clocks are not Swiss??
| | This following 3 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post: | | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:04. | |