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  #81  
Old 06.11.2010, 11:49
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

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The original reason is lost and now we have the case that religion is placed up top with race, ethnicity, language, etc as to be given special protection. Whereas as other modes of thought aren't. Religion in the end is simply a philosophical/political system with special rights against criticism.
Jein... I'm with you on not allowing religious groups to have special privileges, but it can't be denied that religion and race/ethnicity are very closely tied (and always have been).

Why else are Europeans happy to co-exist with Baptists, but up in arms about Muslims? They're pretty much the same in all respects, apart from the fact that the latter tend to be brown.

As long as the link between race/ethnicity and religion exists in people's minds, there will always be calls to protect certain religious groups, in the name of cultural and ethnic diversity, regardless of the merits of a particular belief or ideology.
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  #82  
Old 06.11.2010, 11:52
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

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The secular state is responsible for the religious peace, everyone is free to practice his/her religion as long as it does not prevent others from their own freedom. Provocation should be hindered by the legal arm of the state as it represents a risk for civil peace.
THIS exactly is the point of the Bernese authorities. And the Berner are generally fairly tolerant folks, but I expect them to be rather strict in this case present here ! The matter now indeed is in the hands of the Bernese judiciary.

And I might recommend the culprits to accept the verdict of the City of Berne court, as you there have rather liberal (even leftist) folks, to take it further would be to the Canton of Berne Appeal Court, dominated by far more conservative and far stricter folks from the wider Canton, who would see the matter as an insult against the KantonBern
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  #83  
Old 06.11.2010, 12:03
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

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Jein... I'm with you on not allowing religious groups to have special privileges, but it can't be denied that religion and race/ethnicity are very closely tied (and always have been).

Why else are Europeans happy to co-exist with Baptists, but up in arms about Muslims? They're pretty much the same in all respects, apart from the fact that the latter tend to be brown.

As long as the link between race/ethnicity and religion exists in people's minds, there will always be calls to protect certain religious groups, in the name of cultural and ethnic diversity, regardless of the merits of a particular belief or ideology.
People do not seem to complain about hinduist/buddhist/taoist temples from the Sri Lanka community, or from chinese community. They are from a different "race". I do think it has more to do with historical wars between christianism and islam (cruisades, turks in Vienna, Charles Martel in France, Moorish in Spain etc...).
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  #84  
Old 06.11.2010, 12:03
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

I think we look at the protection of religion from different angles, depending on our country of origin.

Specific religions (catholics, jews, anglicans) have specific rights in the UK like founding schools. The state is not neutral towards religion. It's similar in Switzerland, state and religion are not completely separated.

Germany on the other hand is different. The state is neutral and doesn't identify itself with any religion. Although there is the possibility of cooperation when it comes to church tax and holidays. Since I grew up there, this is my understanding of this issue. All religions and philosophies have the same rights and obligations.
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Old 06.11.2010, 12:31
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

Religious fights are the most solent but dangerous and provocative issues anywhere in the world. So it is the best to pull out the root of such fights in the seed stage itself.
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  #86  
Old 06.11.2010, 12:38
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

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Religious fights are the most solent but dangerous and provocative issues anywhere in the world. So it is the best to pull out the root of such fights in the seed stage itself.
Nah. Even if all religions ceased to exist tomorrow, there'd still be wars all over the place. It's very rare for a religious disagreement to be the cause of a conflict. Usually there's a longstanding political or cultural grudge, the violent manifestation of which is justified or excused by religion.

The Crusades are a perfect example of this. They would have happened even if Islam had never existed. They might even have happened if Christianity had never existed. They'd have just had to have called them something else...
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  #87  
Old 06.11.2010, 12:39
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

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Religious fights are the most solent but dangerous and provocative issues anywhere in the world. So it is the best to pull out the root of such fights in the seed stage itself.
You may have religious fights in your home country in your mind. But please realize that such fights dominated European history for centuries, and small scale but heavily unpleasant non-violent fights were around in Switzerland deeply into the 1920ies 30ies 40ies and even 50ies. And so, there is some determination to prevent such rubbish from erupting again. You of course may joke about stubborn policemen, strictist judiciary members and bureaucratic officials, but the basic idea to avoid religious conflicts is what I support, even if some things in this may be really ridiculous.
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  #88  
Old 06.11.2010, 14:25
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

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Nah. Even if all religions ceased to exist tomorrow,
That is human nature,no matter whatever theorizes our evolution,we still were once hunting folks and the basic instinct of Honor in fighting wars and bashing up people who are weaker has remained.

War.....it just needs a cause,Religion is surely one of the causes....I completely agree.A cause that rises and appeals to more larger group of individuals questioning their faith.

The Crusades and the Jihad of middle ages were more wars of occupying territory and showing some muscle power rather than to prove something sacred.Fights were on for ,who would occupy Istanbul/Constantinople and who would have Jerusalem as their own territory.Now,the results of these wars surely didn't change the Location of either the Vatican or the Mecca.Or else,the Centre of religions would have had relocated to the place where the messengers of God have been born.

Religion inculcates faith in God..........God(going by all major faiths followed),seeks harmony,peace and fertility on earth.War just reverses all of these.

What is the cause of this hatred???
To prove whose faith is stronger ???? or To prove whose God is stronger???,
If its the first,there are other ways of proving that.Killing and disrespecting people is plain denial of faith in God's ways and proving more faith in our Human ways.
If its the second,then it is simply stupid to think that there are more than one God,or else there would have been more than one fundamental truths of this Universe.One day someone would find Sun rising in the east,the other one would find Sun rising in the west.Night would be deemed day and day would be deemed night.But it is nothing like that,there would be one single law of nature for any incident,we perceive it in different ways.

Sad but true,that it is the very feelings like Religion,Racial supremacy of the people that has caused biggest wars in Human history.
Right from the Holy wars of middle ages to the Second World war.........they were fought for the more Supreme group of humans to rule the earth.......but at the end,they lost all cause leaving the very human race in desolation and pain.

And now things are taking an uglier turn,
we have terror groups showing Religion as their cause of atrocities,we have 24x7 Hasheads trying to prove a point by hurting and disapproving different faiths and beliefs.Abduction,killing,video tapes of meaningless sacrifce..........compels me to think.....
Do we really believe in God and his ways ??????
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  #89  
Old 08.11.2010, 09:53
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

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  #90  
Old 08.11.2010, 11:18
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

I am having a big problem with burning books no matter what kind it is. Books should be protected and used with respect.

Now, to burn a religious book is a very disgusting act in my opinion because it is a total rejection of any kind of respect for other people's belief.

You can be atheist, mormon, jew, muslim, christian. That doesn't give you the right to disrespect other people's way of believing.

I think exactly the same about burning flags.

Before someone say something about the muslims who do that... Yes I find it stupid, uneducated and totally moron attitude.

But this is a minority of the whole muslim community. Sadly, the medias love big shows (it help them to sell) and have poor interest in group hugs!
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Old 08.11.2010, 11:32
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

Lord almighty, if some of these responses aren't the worst examples of generalization and empty thought I've seen in a long time. I've read alot of essays from (Western) pre-teens whose lives are understandably confined to a short leashed radius of experience, and yet I still recall having some respect for their expressions than this dribble here.

Put on your pants mates and give arguments some quanti-qualitative support! You're giving CNN a run for it's money.
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  #92  
Old 08.11.2010, 11:33
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

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You can be atheist, mormon, jew, muslim, christian. That doesn't give you the right to disrespect other people's way of believing.
why not? i think most people are stupid and believe stupid things so deserve to be ridiculed and mocked
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  #93  
Old 08.11.2010, 11:53
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

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which raises the very interesting question, how much energy is released when you burn each ? Does a bible produce more joules during burning than a quraan. We could be heading towards the long unexplained question of which is the better religion. At least in a warmth sense.
All matter is Energy in the end! Doesnt really matter that the books are being burnt, does it?
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  #94  
Old 08.11.2010, 12:29
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

Well it does - because that increases the amount of Carbon Dioxide in the air, and that increases global warming. On that basis, burning a bible is more of an ecological crime than burning a koran. Or the collected works of that Dick Dawkins.
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Old 08.11.2010, 12:58
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

Just Google Crystalnacht to understand why burning books stirs such emotions.
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Old 08.11.2010, 13:35
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

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Lord almighty, if some of these responses aren't the worst examples of generalization and empty thought I've seen in a long time. I've read alot of essays from (Western) pre-teens whose lives are understandably confined to a short leashed radius of experience, and yet I still recall having some respect for their expressions than this dribble here.

Put on your pants mates and give arguments some quanti-qualitative support! You're giving CNN a run for it's money.
Could you perhaps give an example, as you are so clearly knowleagble in this area ?
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  #97  
Old 08.11.2010, 13:42
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

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Just Google Crystalnacht to understand why burning books stirs such emotions.
Synagogues burnt that night not books.
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  #98  
Old 08.11.2010, 13:59
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

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Synagogues burnt that night not books.
Books were burnt on many more evenings than just one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings
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  #99  
Old 08.11.2010, 14:18
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

@economisto, clearly you do not believe in any kind of religion and so you have these feeling towards it. However, there are millions whose sentiments would be hurt if you burned a book that formed the basis of their religion (does not matter which religion).

So while its okay for you to have your opinion, you need to be sensitive to others around you.


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Thank you very much for this information. And I'll repeat: absolutely ridiculous.
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Old 08.11.2010, 14:52
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Re: Hindus arrested for plot to burn the bible and koran on the Bundesplatz

Oh, great. Now you've hurt Economisto's feelings. You really should have been more sensitive.
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