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Old 10.05.2011, 12:26
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Importing car from Italy

(I'm talking about Second Hand Cars)
Hi,
there's numerous posts about importing car to Switzerland from Germany, but none from Italy.

Is there a particular reason?
With autoscout I can see that many of them do the "tax refund" thing.

Maybe there is something famous like "car dealers in Italy" are dodgey?
(no offense intended)

The second hand price seems to be 1000-2000euros cheaper in average than similar car from germany....


Maybe it's famous that they cheat the "mileage"?


Additionally, I suppose that they have less snow therefore less salt on the road, therefore better condition for the car...

Any feedback?

Thanks,

Last edited by CorsebouTheReturn; 10.05.2011 at 12:28. Reason: Talking about Second hand cars
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Old 10.05.2011, 13:53
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Re: Importing car from Italy

More likely that they have been driven well... by Italians. I was in Sorrento last month and whilst having a beer started playing spot the non-dented car... but very quickly got bored as they were few and far between.

I worked with a guy who imported his beloved Alfa that he bough new in Sardinia no problems at all, until winter, when the fact the car had a heater matrix the size of a swimming pool meant the bloody thing was a fridge with tyres.
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Old 10.05.2011, 14:17
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Re: Importing car from Italy

Yes I agree with the few bumps and scratches-
I am familiar and aware of the "southern style" driving.

But if the car dealer would say no accident with the car, I would assume it's true.

Unless they are scammers, sneaky b@stards or sales persons

So if it's only a few bumps would be ok... for the cost difference!
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Old 10.05.2011, 14:29
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Re: Importing car from Italy

Maybe of on the body work, but the fact that they thrash the knackers off them, the generally poorer standard of roads, the scary driving styles, and horrid city driving, would mean that the cars may well have a much harder life that it's German counterpart. 2k would soon dis-appear in garage fee's if that were the case.
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Old 10.05.2011, 14:45
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Re: Importing car from Italy

Understood- That probably explain why it's much more popular to import from Germany.

Thanks,
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Old 22.05.2011, 12:40
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Re: Importing car from Italy

Hey,

Anyone knows the "Tax back process" from Italy?

The shop dealer says it's "IVA reducibile" but it says one needs to get it back from the government(?)


Does not seem to be like the "German Way" (You get the vat back from the dealer after you show them you stamped the documents for export when leaving germany).
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Old 23.05.2011, 11:32
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Re: Importing car from Italy

The process to import car from Italy is different than Germany:


In Italy a vehicle accompanied by two documents:
"CARTA DI Circolazione" equivalent of the gray card (old model: TARGA) issued by the office of registrations of the "Civil Motorizzazione. This service performs the technical approvals and issue the "carta di circolazione" and plates (Targher) for Italian.

"Certificato di Estate": It is issued by the PRA (Pubblico Registro Automobilistico) usually located in the offices of Italian Automobile Club.

To export an Italian vehicle, the two documents should, in principle, pass through the hands of PRA: Pubblico Registro Automobilistico. They will be stamped with an indication for termination of service for export to another EU country, "Annotta cessazione della circulazione per esportazione it DD / MM / YYYY. Radiation and the establishment of a temporary transit plate costs about 100 euros with liability insurance. The plates will be issued in the original PRA. The temporary plate is stiff cardboard that sticks on the rear window, it is valid for 5 days.

The French administration does not require that the vehicle is removed from circulation in Italy, but the omission of this step involves the responsibility of the former owner. It can be done once the vehicle registered in France. It must then return the plates and Italian papers to his former owner who will travel to Italy for PRA ua cancel its registration.


Source:
http://translate.google.com/translat...-en-italie.htm



But for the vat back it's still unclear.
It's for "export out of Europe" so it's clear we don't have to pay VAT. But it seems car dealers don't know/ Don't bother.
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Old 23.05.2011, 11:46
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Re: Importing car from Italy

Don't know if it's different for cars, but when I buy stuff in Italy, either people know me and trust me to send the documents back and thus I don't pay the VAT in the first place, or I collect it back from the shop when I return the documents.

The problem in Italy is that if you have more than EUR 600 worth of stuff, you MUST have the paperwork done by an expediter, AND go through the commercial customs (i.e. with all the trucks). Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.

Tom
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Old 23.05.2011, 11:52
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Re: Importing car from Italy

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Don't know if it's different for cars, but when I buy stuff in Italy, either people know me and trust me to send the documents back and thus I don't pay the VAT in the first place, or I collect it back from the shop when I return the documents.

The problem in Italy is that if you have more than EUR 600 worth of stuff, you MUST have the paperwork done by an expediter, AND go through the commercial customs (i.e. with all the trucks). Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.

Tom
Yes!
The "collecting back" from the shop is like that in Germany. You pay the "brutto price" and once you prove you have exported the vehicle (Custom stamp) you can get back to the shop and they'll refund you the difference "brutto/netto".

But for italy the "Vat deducibile" (tax deductible) they say it's for "professional". Although the official document mention "vat free for export out of europe".
It's just a question of the car seller not willing to bother I think.
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Old 23.05.2011, 11:59
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Re: Importing car from Italy

And this is not just in Italy, but Autocout24.com also has a lot of scams going on. Many of the cars that are advertised at a price below market value are just a front for a scammer. Have a look here: http://www.fraudwatchers.org/forums/...ad.php?t=12893

This is just one example. I was looking to buy a car recently and encountered something like this 3-4 times in 2 weeks. If anyone writes to you about "escrow services" run! Might seem obvious, but apparently a lot of people fall for it.

fduvall
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Old 23.05.2011, 12:01
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Re: Importing car from Italy

Since pretty much any car costs more than EUR 600, you will have to have an expediter do the paperwork for you, even if you bring the car through customs yourself.

I did this when I bought a motorcycle (new) in 2007. A also didn't pay any VAT to the company I bought it from, just sent them the paperwork (or rather, the expediter did).

Note that you actually need two expediters, on Italian, and one Swiss, though the Italian one will have a Swiss partner and can arrange the paperwork for both. I didn't know this at the time, so once I got through the Italian customs and into Switzerland, I then had to go to a Swiss expediter to have more paperwork done.

Tom
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Old 23.05.2011, 12:12
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Re: Importing car from Italy

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And this is not just in Italy, but Autocout24.com also has a lot of scams going on. Many of the cars that are advertised at a price below market value are just a front for a scammer. Have a look here: http://www.fraudwatchers.org/forums/...ad.php?t=12893

This is just one example. I was looking to buy a car recently and encountered something like this 3-4 times in 2 weeks. If anyone writes to you about "escrow services" run! Might seem obvious, but apparently a lot of people fall for it.

fduvall
Ha! thanks,
I had one recently.
It was a bit less obvious but still raised my "suspicion skills" quickly.
The guy had the car from Germany but left to England... end of it


Yeah i'm only looking to real car dealers anyway. And I do some quick background check.
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Old 23.05.2011, 12:16
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Re: Importing car from Italy

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Since pretty much any car costs more than EUR 600, you will have to have an expediter do the paperwork for you, even if you bring the car through customs yourself.

I did this when I bought a motorcycle (new) in 2007. A also didn't pay any VAT to the company I bought it from, just sent them the paperwork (or rather, the expediter did).

Note that you actually need two expediters, on Italian, and one Swiss, though the Italian one will have a Swiss partner and can arrange the paperwork for both. I didn't know this at the time, so once I got through the Italian customs and into Switzerland, I then had to go to a Swiss expediter to have more paperwork done.

Tom
Thanks.
I'm going to do more research into that because I did not get it.
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Old 23.05.2011, 12:32
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Re: Importing car from Italy

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you will have to have an expediter do the paperwork for you, even if you bring the car through customs yourself.


Tom
Hm apparently it's possible to do like that:
To export an Italian vehicle, the two documents should, in principle, pass through the hands of PRA: Pubblico Registro Automobilistico. They will be stamped with an indication for termination of service for export to another EU country, "Annotta cessazione della circulazione per esportazione it DD / MM / YYYY. Radiation and the establishment of a temporary transit plate costs about 100 euros with liability insurance. The plates will be issued in the original PRA. The temporary plate is stiff cardboard that sticks on the rear window, it is valid for 5 days.

It cost about 100euros for that operation.

it seems to be "basic":

1) You do that thing with PRA, you pay, car is unregistered in Italy, you get temporary plates, drive to Customs.

2) You keep original plates but if you have accident it's under responsability of plates owner. And seems that it wont be unregistered properly (=problems).

But I don't see where the "expediter" fits in thats story...

Ha maybe for that TAX thing?
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Old 23.05.2011, 13:27
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Re: Importing car from Italy

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Since pretty much any car costs more than EUR 600, you will have to have an expediter do the paperwork for you, even if you bring the car through customs yourself.

I did this when I bought a motorcycle (new) in 2007. A also didn't pay any VAT to the company I bought it from, just sent them the paperwork (or rather, the expediter did).

Note that you actually need two expediters, on Italian, and one Swiss, though the Italian one will have a Swiss partner and can arrange the paperwork for both. I didn't know this at the time, so once I got through the Italian customs and into Switzerland, I then had to go to a Swiss expediter to have more paperwork done.

Tom
I think this is about what you said:
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...CvXCPNF4HAQXfQ

Seems awfully difficult!
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Old 23.05.2011, 13:48
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Re: Importing car from Italy

I would stick to Germany and Belgium, almost all the dealers I have contacted seem to have experience with export sales. I've also seen cheap cars in Italy, and lots in Poland. The only thing that puts me off Eastern Europe is the language barrier.
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Old 23.05.2011, 14:21
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Re: Importing car from Italy

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I would stick to Germany and Belgium, almost all the dealers I have contacted seem to have experience with export sales. I've also seen cheap cars in Italy, and lots in Poland. The only thing that puts me off Eastern Europe is the language barrier.
I speak polish but I have seen very very little car I want.
I'm looking for a particular type!

Anyway in Poland they mostly get cars from Germany as it's better quality. Polish roads are terrible and cars are not in so good conditions.

As for Germany yes, I tried and they know the process.

But they are terribly annoying! So far they are refusing any little negotiation (500euros on a 13000+ euros car).
They are also showing no interest in sale (The sale person gave us the car keys to try and they were too busy in 1 hour to interact with us, etc...).
From the phone they always say car is sold, but adverts are still there weeks after, etc...
Also prices are quite higher.

So I gave up on germany!

Belgium is too far
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Old 23.05.2011, 15:44
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Re: Importing car from Italy

I looked at buying a car in Italy a while ago because the cost differential was significant. In the end, I was put off the process because it seems it's virtually impossible to get the paperwork sorted out if you're a non-resident. Everything I read seemed to imply that a residence permit was required in order to complete the paperwork.

Apparently, I gave up too easily. It turns out you can do it, although there is quite a lot of bureaucracy to deal with and hoops to jump through.

This website outlines (very well!) the process of buying a car for export:

http://www.maserati-indy.co.uk/alfieri05.htm
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Old 23.05.2011, 15:51
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Re: Importing car from Italy

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Polish roads are terrible and cars are not in so good conditions.
Worse than Italy... God's teeth where do all the EU transport subsidies go. Berlucsconi uses them for tarts and hair dye we know, what do the Poles do?

Stick to Germany, possibly a few squiddlies more, but less hassle, better cars... and sour kraut comes off upholstery easier than bolognese

Last edited by Papa Goose; 30.05.2011 at 14:04.
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Old 23.05.2011, 15:52
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Re: Importing car from Italy

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Hm apparently it's possible to do like that:
To export an Italian vehicle, the two documents should, in principle, pass through the hands of PRA: Pubblico Registro Automobilistico. They will be stamped with an indication for termination of service for export to another EU country, "Annotta cessazione della circulazione per esportazione it DD / MM / YYYY. Radiation and the establishment of a temporary transit plate costs about 100 euros with liability insurance. The plates will be issued in the original PRA. The temporary plate is stiff cardboard that sticks on the rear window, it is valid for 5 days.

It cost about 100euros for that operation.

it seems to be "basic":

1) You do that thing with PRA, you pay, car is unregistered in Italy, you get temporary plates, drive to Customs.

2) You keep original plates but if you have accident it's under responsability of plates owner. And seems that it wont be unregistered properly (=problems).

But I don't see where the "expediter" fits in thats story...

Ha maybe for that TAX thing?
You need the expediter to prepare the paperwork to pass through customs for anything over EUR 600.

Also, I didn't drive through, I had it on a trailer, and it was not, nor had ever been registered, so no PRA stuff for me.

Tom
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