Dealer of winter tires and chains...

Marzullo · #1 21.11.2011, 11:56

I refused to upgrade my tires to winter ones because this winter I will be off my car most of the time.

My dealer says chains won't help much on summer tires, is it true???
Never heard about it !
If I put on chains, no matter what is the tire, they should help !

Plus, he says insurance won't pay the full amount if I have accidents with summer tires on the snow. true?

I know there are no laws in tires so I wonder why this happens, is it written on the insurance contract they behave this way?

k_and_e · #2 21.11.2011, 11:59

Everything your dealer has told you is true.

Mud · #3 21.11.2011, 12:02

If you put on winter tires you will have increased traction in all cold conditions. If you put on chains you will have increased traction in icy conditions, but will be stuck driving <50 and look like a knob (are you thinking of leaving them on always?!).

From everything I've heard you are at risk of some nasty insurance surprises if you have an accident on summer tires in winter. Not sure of the details.

But, unless you have some crazy car, you should be able to put some nice high quality winter tires on for ~700 or less. Ought to get two winters out of them no probs. They aren't a cure-all, but for me it's worth a few hundred bucks for the peace of mind and increased safety.

#4 21.11.2011, 12:03

	Quote:	Marzullo
	My dealer says chains won't help much on summer tires, is it true??? Never heard about it ! If I put on chains, no matter what is the tire, they should help !

Of course it will help but the question is, how often do you see chains on cars in the lower elevation areas of Switzerland?

I've lived here now 24 years and I have yet to drive with chains on my car but in California I had chains on my car (with summer tires) nearly every weekend.

Winter tires on the other hand help more during the winter because they perform better than summer tires do on cold/wet/icy pavement.

fatmanfilms · #5 21.11.2011, 12:10

	Quote:	Mud
	I If you put on chains you will have increased traction in icy conditions, but will be stuck driving <50 and look like a knob (are you thinking of leaving them on always?!).

Totally incorrect, chains only help with snon on the road. Tires grip the road way better than a small area of metal-

Mud · #6 21.11.2011, 12:17

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Totally incorrect, chains only help with snon on the road. Tires grip the road way better than a small area of metal-

For realz? Did not know that. But I've only used mine once (to get out of snow that had compacted into ice

). Still, it sounds like the OP might have the kooky notion that he can slap chains on and drive around all winter

.

Marzullo · #7 21.11.2011, 18:11

i will check my insurance contract, anyway if I put chains then they work, for me it's already fine, i should not spend such money also because my car during winter is pretty much always in my box

Mud · #8 21.11.2011, 18:29

	Quote:	Marzullo
	i will check my insurance contract, anyway if I put chains then they work, for me it's already fine, i should not spend such money also because my car during winter is pretty much always in my box

And what if you have an accident on one of those rare days out? Summer tires perform less well even in dry conditions in the cold (there's a long thread on this subject somewhere here). So you get 3 seasons out of your winter tires- they're worth the peace of mind, really.

Sbrinz · #9 21.11.2011, 18:39

	Quote:	Marzullo
	i will check my insurance contract, anyway if I put chains then they work, for me it's already fine, i should not spend such money also because my car during winter is pretty much always in my box

Then hand in the car plates and save some tax and insurance. There is a very adequate public transport system, which can be supplemented with taxis where necessary.

You really cannot consider driving on summer tyres. Only if the road is dry would this be acceptable. Then if it snows are you going to leave the car at your destination?

When you fit winter tyres you are not using the summer tyres, so they will last longer.

TiMow · #10 21.11.2011, 18:40

	Quote:
	Winter tyre and snow chain requirements

	Quote:
	Country ------------- Winter tyres --------------- Snow chains Switzerland ----------- R(2) ------------------------- C Key: P = Permitted R = Recommended M = Mandatory C = Compulsory. Carry chains and use them as dictated by local signs or road conditions. Reduced speed limits may apply. Notes (1) - All vehicles driving on snow covered roads must have winter tyres (or all-season tyres marked M&S/mud and snow) during the winter season (from 1 November to 15 April) and if roads have a covering of snow, slush or ice outside these dates. Tyres must have a minimum tread depth of 4mm. Theoretically snow chains on summer tyres can be used as an alternative to winter tyres where the entire road is heavily covered with snow and no damage to the road is caused by the snow chains. In practice though, because road conditions and the weather cannot be predicted, use of winter tyres is effectively compulsory. (2) - Snow tyres are not compulsory but vehicles not equipped to travel through snow and which impede traffic are liable to a fine.

From this link:
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice...ter-tyres.html

	Quote:
	*Chaînes à neige obligatoires*: means that snow chains must be put on the tyres. In winter, insurance companies will not accept responsibility for vehicles that do not have winter tyres

From here:
http://geneva.angloinfo.com/countrie...nd/driving.asp

"A fool and his money are easily parted".

tom tulpe · #11 21.11.2011, 18:51

	Quote:	Marzullo
	i will check my insurance contract, anyway if I put chains then they work, for me it's already fine, i should not spend such money also because my car during winter is pretty much always in my box

OK, so you'll be on summer tyres, you will have chains (which you can only use on snow covered roads or solid ice because otherwise they make a hash of the tarmac and have a max. speed of 50). I guess you will be the idiot I'll be stuck behind this coming winter on some hill that's covered in slush after the first snowfall. Get winter tyres or get off the road.

But you saved some bob so that's all right then.

fatmanfilms · #12 21.11.2011, 18:56

If you don't take your car out if there is snow on the ground, or if it's icy then it's OK, rather like riding a motorbike here in winter. If you want to be able to use the car regardless then you should get winter or all season tires.

dibbydoo · #13 21.11.2011, 19:53

Why do you only expect to get 2 or 3 seasons out of winter tyres? Surely that should last just as long as a summer tyre, unless you are doing much more mileage in the winter?

fatmanfilms · #14 21.11.2011, 20:13

	Quote:	dibbydoo
	Why do you only expect to get 2 or 3 seasons out of winter tyres? Surely that should last just as long as a summer tyre, unless you are doing much more mileage in the winter?

The go hard after 3 years from date of manufacture, don't keep them forever. They are softer they won't do quite so many KM. As you should always have 4mm of tread rather than 2mm (1.6 legal) on summer tires.

Ep32 · #15 22.11.2011, 13:45

Further benefit of having both winter and summer tyres: If your winter tyres still have enough of a tread but are not usable in winter conditions (say after 3 winters), you can use them for the following period till the next winter starts and save yourself one season of summer tyre usage. This is what I did this year. Even though winter tyres heat up much quicker, they will not overheat.

ccmiller · #16 23.11.2011, 00:28

So is there any truth to the above point about being (more) liable in an accident if you're caught driving in winter without winter tires? Is there a clear period for when this expectation starts (Dec?) and ends (April?)

NotAllThere · #17 23.11.2011, 07:48

	Quote:	Marzullo
	...My dealer says chains won't help much on summer tires, is it true???

If you're in conditions requiring chains, then they're probably as effective on winter, as much as summer tyres. Of course, limited to 50kph.

	Quote:
	Plus, he says insurance won't pay the full amount if I have accidents with summer tires on the snow. true?

This is a myth. While I use winter and summer tyres, I know people who don't. And their insurance companies have said, when asked, that so long as the tyres are in good condition, they don't care if you have all-season, summer or winter tyres. If you're only driving on cleared roads, then I don't see a problem. Otherwise, I'd think you're foolish not having the proper equipment for the conditions.

If you are unsure, ask your insurance company for a definitive answer.

Ep32 · #18 23.11.2011, 08:06

I think the police would give you hell if you caused an accident in winter & had no winter tyres. Winte rtyres have a different tread pattern and heat up quicker. Theoretically, summer tyres are ok for as long as there is no snow or slush lying around. Summer tyres will not do much good in the snow, it is like driving a rear wheel drive. I have never asked an insurer because I was always told that if you use your summer flip flops instead of your winter booties in winter, you're saving the insurer a lot of paperwork as he will laugh at any claim.

#19 23.11.2011, 08:48

A comparison of summer/all-season/winter tires on ice.

The illustrated differences between all-season and winter tires.

Mark75 · #20 23.11.2011, 09:39

	Quote:	ccmiller
	So is there any truth to the above point about being (more) liable in an accident if you're caught driving in winter without winter tires? Is there a clear period for when this expectation starts (Dec?) and ends (April?)

It does not depend on the time of the year but on the weather and road conditions at the time and location of the accident. If you have an accident on a dry road on a sunny day with temps above zero nobody should bat an eye, however if the accident happens on a road covered with snow or ice you'll be out of luck.