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  #61  
Old 07.08.2012, 11:41
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

By paying cash, I assume you mean in full and not leasing (versus a fat pile of banknotes)? I am hoping that there will be many of those ready to assist when push comes to shove
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  #62  
Old 07.08.2012, 11:55
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

A shout out for the Hyundai Sante Fe. We bought one new last year and couldn't be happier. We have the petrol 2.4L Automatic, but there is also a 2.2L diesel, which is a better engine apparently. We alos went for the 7-seater, but I believe you can also get a standard 5-seater.
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  #63  
Old 10.08.2012, 18:05
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

I am wondering how is it so far nobody mentioned the Audi Q7 or BMW X5? They do fit in the Discovery 4 budget bracket for similar specs (km, years)

Can anyone share positive/negative feedback on those? Thanks
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  #64  
Old 10.08.2012, 18:31
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

Q7 is same car is Touareg/Cayenne and can be a lot of trouble and issues. I'd avoid it.

X5 on the other hand... There aren't that many issues that I've heard or read. I would love to upgrade to the X5 one day...Either the Land Cruiser or the X5, that would be a nice upgrade.

But the LC and X5 are more or less same size and I don't think somebody will scratch your car with a key just because you drive SUV...
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  #65  
Old 10.08.2012, 20:16
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

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Q7 is same car is Touareg/Cayenne and can be a lot of trouble and issues. I'd avoid it.

X5 on the other hand... There aren't that many issues that I've heard or read. I would love to upgrade to the X5 one day...Either the Land Cruiser or the X5, that would be a nice upgrade.

But the LC and X5 are more or less same size and I don't think somebody will scratch your car with a key just because you drive SUV...
The minute I read your first line on Q7/Toureg/Cayenne I had a "duh" moment. Of course VW, Audi and Porsche share a platform. What tricked me is the stellar heritage of the Quattro and I was lured into the Q7 tent by a passing A6 AllRoad... Anyhow, scratching it off the list.

Good points on the X5/LC, will need to research a bit the dimensions/footprint/etc.
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  #66  
Old 11.08.2012, 09:17
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

Help me figure this one out: woke up to some casual browsing and decided to run BMW x5 on mobile.de. What is the catch here, I know the rule that "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is", so I am puzzled how is it possible to see not one but THREE BMW x5 past 2010 in very low mileage on the chopping block for EUR 9-13k????

These three come on top, with "show damaged vehicles" OFF, pictures do not show any damage to the cars either.

http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat...eatures=EXPORT

http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat...eatures=EXPORT

http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat...eatures=EXPORT
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  #67  
Old 11.08.2012, 11:21
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

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Help me figure this one out: woke up to some casual browsing and decided to run BMW x5 on mobile.de. What is the catch here, I know the rule that "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is", so I am puzzled how is it possible to see not one but THREE BMW x5 past 2010 in very low mileage on the chopping block for EUR 9-13k????

These three come on top, with "show damaged vehicles" OFF, pictures do not show any damage to the cars either.

http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat...eatures=EXPORT

http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat...eatures=EXPORT

http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat...eatures=EXPORT
I can't see any of them mate, says they are not available

p.s The monster V12D Q7 is a quattro devision car but it "twice" the price of the normal one
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  #68  
Old 11.08.2012, 12:09
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

Here's a wildcard nobody's mentioned.... Subaru Legacy diesel estate - or the Outback if you want the extra height.

Given that my car history reads Citoen ZX Volcane, Subaru Impreza Turbo (now WRX - and was seriously looking at an STi at one point), Mitsubishi Evo VI, Honda S2000, Audi S4, you'll see I like my cars.

When I bought my Legacy, practicality and running costs were the priority, but it's actually pretty fun to drive, and being a diesel has plenty of torque low down (I may only have 170-180 horses, but I also have somewhere in the region of 350 torques). Not having to worry about "can I afford the fuel" makes a huge difference to the enjoyment too I'm getting 6 l/100km on fuel consumption and the thing is a tardis - it takes at least 50% more luggage than my S4 estate did with almost the same external dimensions. If you get the top trim level, you get practically all the bells and whistles you'd expect on the German makes, and personally I think it's an awful lot of car for the money.
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  #69  
Old 11.08.2012, 20:16
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

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Here's a wildcard nobody's mentioned.... Subaru Legacy diesel estate - or the Outback if you want the extra height.

Given that my car history reads Citoen ZX Volcane, Subaru Impreza Turbo (now WRX - and was seriously looking at an STi at one point), Mitsubishi Evo VI, Honda S2000, Audi S4, you'll see I like my cars.

When I bought my Legacy, practicality and running costs were the priority, but it's actually pretty fun to drive, and being a diesel has plenty of torque low down (I may only have 170-180 horses, but I also have somewhere in the region of 350 torques). Not having to worry about "can I afford the fuel" makes a huge difference to the enjoyment too I'm getting 6 l/100km on fuel consumption and the thing is a tardis - it takes at least 50% more luggage than my S4 estate did with almost the same external dimensions. If you get the top trim level, you get practically all the bells and whistles you'd expect on the German makes, and personally I think it's an awful lot of car for the money.
I like all things race-proven-quattro and Subaru is no exception; the Forrester (yeah, I know some find it dull) is excellent in my eyes - my only worry is that the spare parts/maintenance may be more expensive compared to (for example) a more popular European brand, the likes of Volvo, Mercedes, BMW. Originating from Asia, these should be subjected to duties and taxes on top of the usual price, no? I may very well be wrong here but remember having this discussion not too long ago with a friend.

Lucky for me, you are an actual owner, so your first-hand experience matters - is it nice to own a Subaru in Switzerland?
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  #70  
Old 25.02.2013, 16:25
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Re: MB M-Class / Honda CRV [Family Car Questio

Reviving this one, as it is just a little evolved but same topic indeed.

So, taking all inputs and raking through autoscout24 and mobile sites, I am now at a different fork in the decision process...

A loaded Honda CRV under 2 years and under 50k kms will be roughly the same price like a 2007 150k Mercedes 350CDI. You catch my drift: new(er) Honda versus old(er) Merc? My main arguments why I am considering this are build quality and residual value, say, five years from now?

I test drove the Mazda CX5 and just could not shake off the plastic feeling, the inferior noise isolation, the stiffer ride and jumpy engine compared to the Mercedes... Out of those discussed earlier in the thread as new/almost-new possibles, the Honda was the closest but still, nowhere near the 2010 Merc ML280 I drove one Saturday.

I cannot seem to find a pre-owned X5 anywhere in Geneva to try for a spin, so this is the unknown remaining.

Back on topic - cast your votes on the new(er) Honda CRV versus old(er) Merc ML, please.

Thanks!
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  #71  
Old 13.01.2015, 17:02
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

How unusual of me - not to come back and report on the happy ending??? Oh, well, now is as good time as any... Here goes:

After this most fruitful thread and the Mrs *really* liking the BMW 5 Estate we rented when a Discovery was not available, we finally opened the door for large estates. Audi A6 (all versions), BMW 5 and Merc E. At the time, the Audi Allroad was top of my personal list, quattro country and all... But the dealership screwed up so bad, I blacklisted them altogether. I thought to myself - I have not yet purchased it and trouble is looming, what happens when I'm in?! Lucky for me, the Subaru Outback was decently priced, favorably specced and with AWD to match this gaping hole.

And there we had it: one weekend rental of a Merc E250 7G automatic estate and one weekend with the Beamer 5 Touring. We test-drove the Subaru and it was practical, and nice, and solid and all, but left no butterflies after a ride. And the automatic gearbox was a fricking disaster. Add the smell of freshly changed tyres permeating the car during the test drive, as the dealer had too much to do, it was really hard to think with this stench. To this day I am baffled why dealers are so lazy here. Meh, different topic.

So this is how we landed in the final two: the beamer 5 and the merc E. The beamer weekend was remarkable, Grace Kelly weather, brunch on a farm, as if the Gods were working for the BMW marketing team and setup a real life commercial. The breeze was playing in the open sunroof, ZF gearbox was smooth as silk, ride was cloud-like. Ample room and comfort for all, the baby seat ISOFIX install was flawless, stroller in the boot in one go, etc... The bluetooth just didn't want to pair with my Android and kept listing my wife's iPhone as the only phone out there, the NAV lady was dumb repeating the same route over and over from what appeared to be a faulty GPS antenna. Even at 50km/h car was shown standing at a roundabout and lady was "turn right, turn right, turn right..." until cancelled into oblivion. So everyone but me were beyond pleased. I was just pissy that simple gadgetry like pairing one's phone is so hard. Fuel consumption this weekend was negligible in the mid 7/100 for a 535ix, and honestly, I was acting spoiled little sh!t hissing about a bluetooth in a car that good.

Next weekend we got the Merc E break, a 250 bluetec with the 7G gearbox. This time, we had FOUR adults and the baby and a trip to Montreux planned, plus some quick trips here and there. Air suspension and the rare Merc quality that cannot be explained with words but just by sitting behind the wheel and closing the door: one immediately knows a Merc. Or at least, my endorfine-pumping brain did... Click, phone paired, click - my son's nursery rhymes are gently pushed to the back seat... This car *shines* on the highway, it is an imperial star-destroyer which Darth Vader would lust more than the Emperor's seat. The family was very pleased and only made things harder when saying: both the beamer and the merc were GREAT, you pick!

Then came the weeks long search and research of buy-vs-import and finally, one day, I decided to go with the Merc I found in Frankfurt. Top of the line 2011, six-figure price tag as new, and two year factory warranty for being a CPO Junge Sterne. Called the dealer, booked a visit to inspect and test drive, called dibs after that and herr dealer said "ve need a veek to prepare tze car fur export avter you paiz via tze bank, vould you like to bookz a pick-up day?"

As most tasked with the first family car purchase, I hesitated till the last minute I wired the money and followed with my eyes each E-break and 5-tourer that I saw, but eventually went through the purchase. Thank you to all who have posted in this section on import procedures, it has helped me prepare and made it far easier than I believed it would be.

Over a year has passed since we own and drive the Merc E350 break daily. I have gone through one annual service maintenance and can attest to this being a superb family choice. With baby #2 on the horizon, I feel we are prepared and will keep enjoying our trips. Highway full tank is 1,100km+ range, cruise control and all the other goodies make travel superb. Just before the holidays we even went to the French mountains on a weekend when 50cm fresh snow caught the road services unprepared... Despite multiple cars in the ditch and all the dashboard lighting up as christmas tree with traction and stability controls, we had a safe trip on winter tyres only. Perhaps next time we'll throw some chains in the trunk for good measure and peace of mind but not much more.

A good friend of the family dissuaded me from buying a 4WD (the Discovery 4, to be precise). He argued that for that 1% of the year we need a Discovery to go high up in the mountain it is better to rent one than to drive one around town all year to be ready for zombie apocalypse. Wise man and I am grateful I listened - large estate fits our family of 3 and a half (soon 4) very well and I am very pleased with our pick, the Mercedes E350 diesel estate. Highly recommended to all who search and read these threads. And one last thing - if you are ever on the fence between a BMW 5 Tourer and the Mercedes E: follow your heart and you cannot go wrong. Both superb vehicles, impeccable handling and comfort, quality of finishing and all, ditto on the dealerships and interaction I had with them to date.

In summary - my tips for the future family car buyer would be:

1) research and make a short-list; be smart and challenge your choices, ask for advice friends and fora!
2) book test drives or better yet, rent for the weekend so you test with the family in real-life scenario
3) slim the list to two and then let your heard take charge.

Safe driving and hope you find this summary useful
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  #72  
Old 13.01.2015, 17:26
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

I passed out after 2 lines of reading...

Can you simply write in 1 line which car you bought?
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  #73  
Old 13.01.2015, 18:02
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

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I passed out after 2 lines of reading...

Can you simply write in 1 line which car you bought?
Well said, just buy the car you like !
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  #74  
Old 13.01.2015, 18:38
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

In a nutshell:

Quote:
...Over a year has passed since we own and drive the Merc E350 break daily...
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  #75  
Old 13.01.2015, 19:17
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

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...snip...

A good friend of the family dissuaded me from buying a 4WD (the Discovery 4, to be precise)

...snip...
Hmmpphhh! What do you need friends for when you've got EF?!?

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If you don't want 7 seats, any large estate will do and you don't need the 4x4 looks, i.e. buy a large estate A6, BMW 5 series, Merc E class, volvo with four wheel drive.

You'll have better performance, economy and more comfort.

I say this as a former Disco 3 owner (loved them) and now a Merc Viano owner. I need(ed) the seats, so I think it is more justifiable. If you don't, then it really is a case of trying to crack a nut with a sledge hammer (for the reasons you've stated, anyway).

Of course, if you just want a big car, then be honest about it.

That being the case, get a second hand Porsche Cayenne - they lose value faster than a Lada so you should be able to pick up a bargain...
Page 1, mate, page 1.

Good luck with #2.

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  #76  
Old 14.01.2015, 12:52
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

I do like the Merc E 350, have you experience any gearbox issues?
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Old 14.01.2015, 12:56
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

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I do like the Merc E 350, have you experience any gearbox issues?
I thought the 7G was well put together - and up to "old" Merc build standards. The E350CDI with the 265ps engine is a very nice piece of kit - but prices are quite steep when new. It really comes down to personal preference between that, the 530XD and the Audi A6.

I have a soft spot (in my head) for the Disco - it does so many things really well and is well suited to the really bad weather days - but then it will have a reliability "moment" and you end up questioning why you own one. In terms of parking I find it a doddle - nice vertical slab sides alround!
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  #78  
Old 14.01.2015, 15:08
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

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Hmmpphhh! What do you need friends for when you've got EF?!?

Page 1, mate, page 1.

Good luck with #2.

Amen to that, Carlos and thank you for pointing it out - the friend in mind has horses, and trailers he regularly tows around with his Audi Allroad or Discovery: it is he who (obviously echoed your advice and) suggested we stick to what fits the 99% of need and not the 1% off-chance. But granted - with guys like you at EF, few need other friends

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I thought the 7G was well put together - and up to "old" Merc build standards. The E350CDI with the 265ps engine is a very nice piece of kit - but prices are quite steep when new. It really comes down to personal preference between that, the 530XD and the Audi A6.

I have a soft spot (in my head) for the Disco - it does so many things really well and is well suited to the really bad weather days - but then it will have a reliability "moment" and you end up questioning why you own one. In terms of parking I find it a doddle - nice vertical slab sides alround!
Echo that - the 7G is put together well: we had one episode of rough changing but a new "revision", also known as gearbox+engine firmware solved that. Smooth as silk. And again - picking between the beemer and the merc is highly subjective but essentially a win-win: whichever you pick is a great car.

Speaking of soft-spots: I have one for the Merc G and if God likes me enough, I'll drive one in the future.


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  #79  
Old 16.01.2015, 00:10
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Re: MB R-Class / Volvo XC90 / MB M-Class / Land Rover Discovery 4 [Family Car Questio

I was thinking about a 4 year old Q7 - any ideas how it compares quality-wise to Merc-Benz GL350, BMW X5 and Volvo XC90? (I need a 7 seater, I'd like a SUV because of safety concerns for the rear bench passengers).

About a month ago I've asked a few dealers about any discount on their used Q7, and none offered any.
Now, after CHF appreciation, I could get something in Germany, unless the local dealers become more cooperative...
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