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  #81  
Old 19.05.2016, 11:50
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

So far no Swiss court ever ruled if Dashcams are actually legal or not. The only guideline is from the EDÖB which says that they may not be legal.

Non surprisignly no Swiss court ever ruled if a Dashcam recording could be used as evidence in a process (civil or criminal). AKAIK there is no Swiss law which would forbid to use such a recording per se as evidence:

Swiss Civil Procedure Code
Quote:
Art. 152 Right to evidence

1 Each party is entitled to have the court accept the evidence that he or she offers in the required form and time.

2 Illegally obtained evidence shall be considered only if there is an overriding interest in finding the truth.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a152

Swiss Criminal Procedure Code
Note that only evidences gathered by illegal means by the criminal justice authorities are inadmissable.

Quote:
Art. 140 Prohibited methods of taking evidence

1 The use of coercion, violence, threats, promises, deception and methods that may compromise the ability of the person concerned to think or decide freely are prohibited when taking evidence.

2 Such methods remain unlawful even if the person concerned consents to their use.

Art. 141 Admissibility of unlawfully obtained evidence

1 Evidence obtained in violation of Article 140 is not admissible under any circumstances. The foregoing also applies where this Code declares evidence to be inadmissible.

2 Evidence that criminal justice authorities have obtained by criminal methods or by violating regulations on admissibility is inadmissible unless it is essential that it be admitted in order to secure a conviction for a serious offence.

3 Evidence that has been obtained in violation of administrative regulations is admissible.

4 Where evidence that is inadmissible under paragraph 2 has made it possible to obtain additional evidence, such evidence is not admissible if it would have been impossible to obtain had the previous evidence not been obtained.

5 Records relating to inadmissible evidence shall be removed from the case documents, held in safekeeping until a final judgment has concluded the proceedings, and then destroyed.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a140


Even in Germany, with similar laws, which is ten times bigger such court cases are rather rare. Here one of the most recent rullings on admissaibility by the OLG Stuttgart 04.05.2016 - 4 Ss 543/15 (The very first Oberlandgericht which had actually decide on the topic) : Dashcam recordings may be used as evidence.
http://www.badische-zeitung.de/panor...122214108.html
https://www.jurion.de/de/news/339714...rwertet-werden
http://dejure.org/dienste/vernetzung...0Ss%20543%2F15
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  #82  
Old 19.05.2016, 12:38
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

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So far no Swiss court ever ruled if Dashcams are actually legal or not. The only guideline is from the EDÖB which says that they may not be legal.

Non surprisignly no Swiss court ever ruled if a Dashcam recording could be used as evidence in a process (civil or criminal). AKAIK there is no Swiss law which would forbid to use such a recording per se as evidence:

Swiss Civil Procedure Code

https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a152

Swiss Criminal Procedure Code
Note that only evidences gathered by illegal means by the criminal justice authorities are inadmissable.


https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a140


Even in Germany, with similar laws, which is ten times bigger such court cases are rather rare. Here one of the most recent rullings on admissaibility by the OLG Stuttgart 04.05.2016 - 4 Ss 543/15 (The very first Oberlandgericht which had actually decide on the topic) : Dashcam recordings may be used as evidence.
http://www.badische-zeitung.de/panor...122214108.html
https://www.jurion.de/de/news/339714...rwertet-werden
http://dejure.org/dienste/vernetzung...0Ss%20543%2F15
Great, thanks.

Seems to be a parallel to the Google Street View project. So far as I know this was never tested in a Swiss court; simply Google and the Swiss privacy people came to an Agreement?
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  #83  
Old 01.06.2016, 20:30
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

From my understanding and research, chatting to the Gendarmes and using one in both my cars for many months, dash cams here are fine. The ambiguity and haze surrounds the use of any 'film' produced as evidence for road infractions or what-have-you in a court of law (if you so wished). But I think the above posts have answered that.
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  #84  
Old 02.06.2016, 09:31
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

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Great, thanks.

Seems to be a parallel to the Google Street View project. So far as I know this was never tested in a Swiss court; simply Google and the Swiss privacy people came to an Agreement?
But of course. Although this was partially overturned later on, the latter ruling confirms that the right to privacy overrides commercial interests.
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From my understanding and research, chatting to the Gendarmes and using one in both my cars for many months, dash cams here are fine. The ambiguity and haze surrounds the use of any 'film' produced as evidence for road infractions or what-have-you in a court of law (if you so wished). But I think the above posts have answered that.
Keep in mind that even if your film is ruled admissible you still may be incriminating yourself. However, argument is not (just) about the usage of any given film but at least as much about its production: The EDÖB specifically mentions the permanent filming by dashcams as highly problematic and probably illegal, as well as "filming for the fun of it" i.e. without particular reason.

Notice that the illegality is not about dashcams per se but how they are used.
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  #85  
Old 02.06.2016, 10:08
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

I was stopped at the border - Autobahn Germany / Basel. The Swiss border police thought It was a radar detector and where about to get shirty, when I flipped down the LED screen and they saw it was a camera I was waved off on my way...
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  #86  
Old 02.06.2016, 10:28
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

Some fool in an A-class Mercedes ran a red light and tried to demolish my car at an intersection the other day. He claimed that his light was green and of course I said the same about mine (since my light was green). The police commented that it would have been handy if I'd had a dashcam. When I asked if the nearby petrol station might have cameras that could show what happened, he said that they could not film anything outside their premises, for privacy reasons.

So, confusion reigns.
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  #87  
Old 12.08.2016, 10:36
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

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I was stopped at the border - Autobahn Germany / Basel. The Swiss border police thought It was a radar detector and where about to get shirty, when I flipped down the LED screen and they saw it was a camera I was waved off on my way...
What kind of cam do you use? And where do you place it? From this thread, I'm really curious where one can put it so that we're not violating the rules stated earlier about obstructing driver's views
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  #88  
Old 12.08.2016, 10:47
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

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What kind of cam do you use? And where do you place it? From this thread, I'm really curious where one can put it so that we're not violating the rules stated earlier about obstructing driver's views
Most dashcams are installed inside the car, i.e. behind the windscreen (for forward-facing cameras). In this instance, you'd install it behind the rear view mirror (many people affix their Autobahn vignette there, where it can't be seen by the driver).

It's also possible to install a "commercial" dashcam on the exterior of the car, for example in the front grille. However, these are usually quite a bit more expensive to install, usually offer fewer features (e.g. no wifi/wireless download of images, no app support) and run the risk of getting caked with dirt, squashed bugs, etc.

Here are images of the driver's view (in a right hand drive car) of a dashcam installed behind the rear view mirror, and from a closer position (and another angle):



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  #89  
Old 12.08.2016, 12:14
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

https://www.facebook.com/Herdotie/vi...2213567896441/


This is the only good use of a dashboard camera...to have a good laugh at the Irish!
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  #90  
Old 12.08.2016, 12:51
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

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https://www.facebook.com/Herdotie/vi...2213567896441/


This is the only good use of a dashboard camera...to have a good laugh at the Irish!
You mean, to laugh at them for having a dashcam that faces inside the car, rather than filming what's outside?
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  #91  
Old 12.08.2016, 12:57
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

I use a dashcam, why? because at least twice a week I have some numpty pull out in front of me, or join the motorway in front of me at 60kph (while I'm doing 120) and one day I'm not going to be able to stop in time.

I had enough non fault accidents to know what people are like, arguing black is white and it wasn't there fault honest guv.

it may not be admissible in court but it would certainly give the police some context, and worst case I'd post it up on youtube

the standard of driving here is pretty dire.
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  #92  
Old 12.08.2016, 13:09
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

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I use a dashcam, why? because at least twice a week I have some numpty pull out in front of me, or join the motorway in front of me at 60kph (while I'm doing 120) and one day I'm not going to be able to stop in time.

I had enough non fault accidents to know what people are like, arguing black is white and it wasn't there fault honest guv.

it may not be admissible in court but it would certainly give the police some context, and worst case I'd post it up on youtube

the standard of driving here is pretty dire.
Exactly why I'm about to invest in one (actually, two, one forward- and one rear-facing camera). See my earlier post -- the police took three months to determine that the other driver was at fault for the accident. This is exactly what I want to avoid in the future.
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  #93  
Old 12.08.2016, 13:23
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

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the standard of driving here is pretty dire.
If you think it's dire with GL plates, try it with ZH ones!
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Old 12.08.2016, 13:26
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

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If you think it's dire with GL plates, try it with ZH ones!
The worst of the lot (for everyone else on the road):

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  #95  
Old 12.08.2016, 13:44
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Re: Dashcam (Dashboard Camera)

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The worst of the lot (for everyone else on the road):

SZ are worse then AG by a long way!
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