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  #41  
Old 04.10.2013, 19:50
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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  #42  
Old 04.10.2013, 19:52
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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Good stuff, but I do think there's still room to clarify further.

For a start we should perhaps stop saying that something is 'illegal' when in fact it's not - it's not driving a foreign vehicle that would be the offence, but illegally importing it.

Edit: I only just saw the bit in your post that says "There no law that forbids you to drive a foreign registred car. PERIOD.". Maybe that was what you added with the edit. Anyway, it's completely in tune with what I'm saying here.
Yes I added it later. But as said, I said it before, and as I will say in the future.
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You wont find a law that will forbid driving a foreign registred car with a Swiss license. Period. (How can you prove a negative?)
http://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/74.html#74

But you will find alot about about importing of motor vehicles, restrictions, relaxations and exemptions etc. But still nothing about the license. What matters is your domicile and under what condition the car was brought over the border.
And you are correct about actual problem: It is not illegal driving, but illegal importing (or bringing a valuable good tax free over the border under false pretenses). It has nothing to do with the traffic law, it is all about custom and tax and the actual conditions and exemptions that apply to the foreign car.


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I linked to the relevant page on the admin.ch site a while back but haven't time to go hunting for it again. Long and the short of it was it was v clear that even if e.g. you went skiing with a friend from the UK in their British registered car and they had an accident, it would still be illegal for you to drive their car back to your home on your Swiss driving licence.
Aaargh..
First, as long as your injured friend is in the car. No problemo.
Second, it has nothing to do with your driving license. Please stop that nonsense.
Third, if your friend is not in the car you can not use it. It would be a violation of is temporary tax free import. And your friend (not you) would be liable for all applicable taxes, fees, and additional fines.
Forth, I said 'use' not 'drive'. Because if your friends car is a motorhome you could not even sleep alone in it. Or it could be a boat, or an airplane, or even simpler a bicylce. Same thing here, you cannot use it alone. It would be a violation of is temporary tax free import. And your friend (not you) would be liable for all applicable taxes, fees, and additional fines.
Fifth, if you were is friend from the US (who was neverin in Europe before) and you did not cross the border together in his car but met in Switzerland you still cannot use his car all alone in Switzerland. It would be a violation of is temporary tax free import. And your friend (not you) would be liable for all applicable taxes, fees, and additional fines.
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  #43  
Old 14.10.2013, 17:52
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

Official response below:


Personen mit Wohnsitz in der Schweiz dürfen auf schweizerischem Zollgebiet (CH-Staatsgebiet ohne das Zollausschlussgebiet Samnaun jedoch inkl. die Zollanschlussgebiete Fürstentum Liechtenstein und die deutsche Gemeinde Büsingen) grundsätzlich keine unverzollten Motorfahrzeuge verwenden.

Für Mietfahrzeuge gelten besondere Bestimmungen. Danach können im Schweizer Zollgebiet wohnhafte Personen für Mietfahrzeuge, die auf Grund eines im Ausland abgeschlossenen Mietvertrages eingeführt werden, eine Zwischenabfertigung mit Vormerkschein Formular 15.25, gültig 8 Tage seit Inkrafttreten des Mietvertrages, mindestens jedoch 3 Tage ab Grenzübertritt (Tag der Einreise nicht mitgerechnet) beantragen. Dieser Schein wird vom Schweizer Grenzzollamt auf Antrag ausgestellt. Der Mietvertrag ist unaufgefordert vorzuweisen.

Der Fahrzeugführer muss das Fahrzeug vor Ablauf der gesetzten Frist entweder selbst wieder ins Ausland zurückbringen oder nach Rücksprache mit der Vermieterin einer Mietwagenfirma in der Schweiz übergeben.

Andere ausländische Fahrzeuge als Mietfahrzeuge können in der Schweiz wohnhafte Personen nur sehr eingeschränkt verwenden. Zugestanden werden kann eine Zollanmeldung für die vorübergehende Verwendung für 12 Fahrten innerhalb eines Jahres. Dabei sind die Einfuhrabgaben (Zoll, Automobilsteuer und Mehrwertsteuer) durch Bürgschaft oder Bahrhinterlage sicherzustellen. Das Fahrzeug darf zudem nur für Fahrten über die Grenze verwendet werden und muss jeweils innert 3 Tagen wieder ins Ausland verbracht werden. Die Ein- bzw. Ausreisedaten sind von der jeweiligen Dienststelle auf dem Freipass bestätigen zu lassen. Weitergehende Zugeständnisse sind ausgeschlossen. Soll das Fahrzeug über diesen Rahmen hinaus verwendet werden, ist es definitiv zu verzollen. Widerhandlungen können die Verzollung des Fahrzeugs und die Einleitung eines Strafverfahrens zur Folge haben.

Freundliche Grüsse


Persons domiciled in Switzerland may (but including the customs terminal regions Principality of Liechtenstein and the German community Biisingen CH territory without the customs enclave Montague) generally do not use uncleared motor vehicles on Swiss customs territory.

Special provisions apply for car rental. Then can the Swiss customs territory of persons resident for car rental that will be introduced on the basis of a completed abroad tenancy agreement, an interim clearance with Vormerkschein form 15:25, valid 8 days since the entry into force of the lease, but at least three days from crossing the border (day of entry not included) apply . This certificate is issued by the Swiss border customs office at the request. The lease is unsolicited badge.

The driver shall be the vehicle before the deadline set himself to bring back either abroad or transferred after consultation with the owner of a car rental company in Switzerland.

Other foreign vehicles as rental vehicles can only use a very limited resident in Switzerland people. Can be Granted a customs declaration for temporary use for 12 trips in a year. The import duties (customs, road tax and VAT) are guaranteed by surety or Bahr backer. The vehicle may also be used for trips across the border, and each must be within 3 days spent abroad again. The inputs or exit data to be confirmed by the respective department on the free pass. Further concessions are excluded. If the vehicle is used beyond this framework, it is definitely to declare. Violations may result in the clearance of the vehicle and the initiation of criminal proceedings.



Karin Meier
Zollfachfrau

Eidgenössisches Finanzdepartement EFD
Eidgenössische Zollverwaltung EZV
Zollkreisdirektion Schaffhausen
GVV-Zentrale

Bahnhofstrasse 62, Postfach 1772, 8201 Schaffhausen
Tel
+41526331166
Fax
+41526331199
zentrale.dii-tarif@ezv.admin.ch
www.ezv.admin.ch
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  #44  
Old 14.10.2013, 18:06
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

Thanks dingbat. Would you mind to share the question as well?

PS: Did you spot the very fine distinction? Ms. Meier never used the word 'drive' only 'use'.
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Old 14.10.2013, 18:09
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

Touché


Could you please kindly advise if a Swiss citizen resident in Switzerland is allowed to drive a foreign-registered car across the border into CH, and to use that car in CH for a few days or a week? The foreign owner of the car will not be in the car at the same time. Thanking you in advance for your reply.
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Old 14.10.2013, 18:15
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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Touché


Could you please kindly advise if a Swiss citizen resident in Switzerland is allowed to drive a foreign-registered car across the border into CH, and to use that car in CH for a few days or a week? The foreign owner of the car will not be in the car at the same time. Thanking you in advance for your reply.
Good, my question was:

Could you please kindly advise if a Swiss resident is allowed to drive a foreign-registered car in Switzerland, when said car was brought over by a tourist and said tourist will be in the car all the time while it is driven by the Swiss resident, or would it be a violation of its import exemption? Thanking you in advance for your reply.
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Old 14.10.2013, 18:16
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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Touché


Could you please kindly advise if a Swiss citizen resident in Switzerland is allowed to drive a foreign-registered car across the border into CH, and to use that car in CH for a few days or a week? The foreign owner of the car will not be in the car at the same time. Thanking you in advance for your reply.
Usually no...
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Old 14.10.2013, 18:22
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

I can't believe this debate is still going on after years of the same... Swiss residents are NOT allowed to drive foreign registered cars in Switzerland unless they belong to them and are in the import grace period or subject to other exception circumstances, like being a farmer with lands on each side of the boarder, hire or commercial vehicles etc...

Here is a link that I believe ACE1 originally asked for : http://www.ezv.admin.ch/zollinfo_pri...x.html?lang=en

Unfortunately they have changed the website and the points are not as detailed as they used to be but the fact is still clearly there.

I think the first paragraph is particularly apt: "The temporary use of foreign private vehicles by persons resident in Switzerland is prohibited in principle. Concerning customs and road traffic legal notification obligations with regard to the use of foreign vehicles in Switzerland, experience shows that there is often uncertainty and confusion. There is even some false information being circulated in internet forums, for example. It is for this reason that we would like to provide information on the main principles."
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Old 14.10.2013, 18:33
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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I can't believe this debate is still going on after years of the same... Swiss residents are NOT allowed to drive foreign registered cars in Switzerland unless they belong to them and are in the import grace period or subject to other exception circumstances, like being a farmer with lands on each side of the boarder, hire or commercial vehicles etc...

[...]

I think the first paragraph is particularly apt: "The temporary use of foreign private vehicles by persons resident in Switzerland is prohibited in principle. [...] "
We are talking about exceptions from the principle. The finer details of the whole thing.
PS: The original question was "I think that driving a car with a foreign plate in switzerland having a swiss driving license is illegal, right?" Which is in so many ways wrong.
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Old 14.10.2013, 18:44
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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We are talking about exceptions from the principle. The finer details of the whole thing.
PS: The original question was "I think that driving a car with a foreign plate in switzerland having a swiss driving license is illegal, right?" Which is in so many ways wrong.
The main issue people are interested in are the circumstances they are likely to find themselves in e.g they are domiciled in Switzerland for the last 2 odd years, their brother comes to visit from the UK with his shiny new Maserati can they legally borrow and drive it in Switzerland on their Swiss licence... Answer NO

e.g. 2 They have moved here, have registered and traded their US licence for a Swiss one and their Car has just arrived at customs with the NY plates on, can they use and drive it if all else is in order... Answer YES
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Old 14.10.2013, 19:08
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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The main issue people are interested in are the circumstances they are likely to find themselves in e.g they are domiciled in Switzerland for the last 2 odd years, their brother comes to visit from the UK with his shiny new Maserati can they legally borrow and drive it in Switzerland on their Swiss licence... Answer NO

e.g. 2 They have moved here, have registered and traded their US licence for a Swiss one and their Car has just arrived at customs with the NY plates on, can they use and drive it if all else is in order... Answer YES

Here is the problem, you give the same misleading information, because:

They are domiciled in Switzerland for the last year, their brother comes to visit from the UK with his shiny new Maserati can they legally borrow and drive it in Switzerland on their UK licence... Answer NO, if the brother is not in the car. Actually, the correct answer is "They can not use it on their own."
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Old 14.10.2013, 19:18
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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Here is the problem, you give the same misleading information, because:

They are domiciled in Switzerland for the last year, their brother comes to visit from the UK with his shiny new Maserati can they legally borrow and drive it in Switzerland on their UK licence... Answer NO, if the brother is not in the car. Actually, the correct answer is "They can not use it on their own."
And you'd get that correct answer from where exactly?
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Old 14.10.2013, 19:32
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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And you'd get that correct answer from where exactly?
First, where do you get this driving license stuff from? The law does not mention it in any kind. The license and its origin is not part of the equation (Please proof me wrong).

Second, Art. 55 ZV-EZV Beförderungsmittel
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(Art. 35 Abs. 1 und 164 Abs. 2 ZV)
Personen mit Wohnsitz ausserhalb des Zollgebiets können Beförderungsmittel zum eigenen Gebrauch im Verfahren der vorübergehenden Verwendung grundsätzlich bis höchstens ein Jahr ohne Zollanmeldung verwenden.
zum Eigenengebrauch - for its own use. It is still for its own use when the car is driven by a chauffeur (Source: Mr. Caduff, Zolldirektion Schaffhausen).

Third, the law does not mention imigration status, residency nor nationality of the chauffeur. It is of no importance. But in any case as soon as the chauffeur is no longer chauffeur but drives the car for its own use it gets an import violation.

Which boils down to this example:

e.g they are domiciled in US for the last 2 odd years. They make holidays in Switzerland and their brother comes to visit from the UK with his shiny new Maserati can they legally borrow and drive it in Switzerland on their US licence... Answer NO, if the brother is not in the car.
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  #54  
Old 14.10.2013, 20:13
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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First, where do you get this driving license stuff from? The law does not mention it in any kind. The license and its origin is not part of the equation (Please proof me wrong).

Second, Art. 55 ZV-EZV Beförderungsmittel


zum Eigenengebrauch - for its own use. It is still for its own use when the car is driven by a chauffeur (Source: Mr. Caduff, Zolldirektion Schaffhausen).

Third, the law does not mention imigration status, residency nor nationality of the chauffeur. It is of no importance. But in any case as soon as the chauffeur is no longer chauffeur but drives the car for its own use it gets an import violation.

Which boils down to this example:

e.g they are domiciled in US for the last 2 odd years. They make holidays in Switzerland and their brother comes to visit from the UK with his shiny new Maserati can they legally borrow and drive it in Switzerland on their US licence... Answer NO, if the brother is not in the car.
Ermmm, er I thought you said their wasn't a law!!!!!

You are stating a customs source. You are conveniently brushing over the simple fact that a Swiss resident should not be driving a foreign plated car in 99.99 percent of the situations. You must be in politics.

I am not going to feed your trolling you are clearly an expert and this forum is truly honoured to have one who is such a master of search, cut and paste. You go right ahead and try and prove that black under certain lights is in fact a different shade of white and hopefully you might have an interesting disagreement on a zebra crossing.

I for one (joined by many forum members and in fact a scary percentage of posters and thankers on this very thread who are clients) will stick with my team of experts and lawyers working in partnership with customs and government whom alongside me deal with this sort of Green card road traffic legalisation, insurance and vehicle importation day in day out.
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Old 14.10.2013, 20:42
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

According to the official reply I posted above, a CH resident can drive a foreign-registered car into CH up to 12 times a year but must return over the border no later than 3 days after entering.

Correct, or .......... ?
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Old 14.10.2013, 20:55
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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According to the official reply I posted above, a CH resident can drive a foreign-registered car into CH up to 12 times a year but must return over the border no later than 3 days after entering.

Correct, or .......... ?
Yes true..It is one of the exceptions applying to commercial agreements as you post also says. This is for vehicles that are hired etc not privately owned vehicles.
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Old 14.10.2013, 20:55
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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According to the official reply I posted above, a CH resident can drive a foreign-registered car into CH up to 12 times a year but must return over the border no later than 3 days after entering.

Correct, or .......... ?
However you need paperwork if I understand correctly, so car needs to be declared & thus the permission obtained.
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Old 14.10.2013, 21:08
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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Yes true..It is one of the exceptions applying to commercial agreements as you post also says. This is for vehicles that are hired etc not privately owned vehicles.

Pehaps not correct as 4th para starts "Andere ausländische Fahrzeuge als Mietfahrzeuge ........... "

"Foreign vehicles other than rental vehicles ......... "
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Old 14.10.2013, 21:15
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

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Pehaps not correct as 4th para starts "Andere ausländische Fahrzeuge als Mietfahrzeuge ........... "

"Foreign vehicles other than rental vehicles ......... "
So how do you prove you exported within 3 days, if you don't have any paperwork ?
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Old 14.10.2013, 21:21
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Re: Driving a car with foreign plate with Swiss Driving License in Switzerland

Well, it seems there must be paperwork - a form to be filled out & stamped upon entry into CH, and then stamped again upon leaving CH ........ haven't yet done it but will report back on actual procedure when completed, OK everyone?
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